Subject: SMML VOL 2682 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:32:24 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 wheel well color 2 Japanese Flags 3 Re WW II National Emblems - Japan and Germany 4 Lo-Viz F-14A Decals 5 Re USS Nimitz rudders 6 Scharnhorst Norway 1943 Colours? 7 Re Colour matching 8 Re WW II National Emblems, Japanese and German flags 9 Usage of SS441 10 Re WW 2 National emblems 11 Questions for Art Herrick RE Yangtze Patrol Gunboats 12 British WW II Camo Colour Code 13 Re Color matching ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Kim Lee Christensen" Subject wheel well color Hi Im in the process of painting a Lockeed Ventura and and Grumman Avenger. It has dawned on me that, what was the color in the wheel well of USN/Marine Aircraft? Was it the same as the Army Air Corps (Humbrol 81)? Or could I just apply odinary cockpitt green (Humbrol 78)? With much wondering Kim LC PS Do a 1/72 scale kit of a Douglas Devastator torpedo bomber still exist on the marked? And if it do, where kan you aquire one? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject Japanese Flags I was in the Western Pacific during WW II and it was our understanding that the "Red Ball" flag was used on commercial ships. the "Rising Sun" flag was used on military ships. Regards, John Kutina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Robert Mosher" Subject Re WW II National Emblems - Japan and Germany Franklyn - The 1936 USN pub on flags shows the red sunburst flag as the national ensign while the red sun (without sunburst) on a white field was the merchant jack. For Germany, it shows ensign with the canted swastika in a white circle bound in black fixed at the junction of a black and white cross that ran horizontally along the center of the banner and the vertical axis at about 1/3 the distance from the staff, dividing the red background into four unequal fields. In the uppermost field closest to the flag staff is a black and white trimmed iron (maltese) cross. The German merchant jack also has the canted swastika in a white circle centered on a red banner. If the ship was commanded by a former naval officer the flag would also have an iron cross in its upper right hand corner nearest the staff. The German service flag shows the swastika set on the square and not canted in a white circle banded in black with the eagle and swastika in the upper corner nearest the staff. Robert A. Mosher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Joe Norris Subject Lo-Viz F-14A Decals Aloha, Do any of you folks know where I can get a set of 1/32 scale "Lo-Viz" VF-213 Black Lions or VF-114 Aardvarks decals? I know super scale used to have a set, but I can't locate any. I just finished my 1/350 CVN-65 and would like to have a large scale F-14A to go with it... Thanks! Joe Norris Kapolei, Hawaii ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Keith" Subject Re USS Nimitz rudders Hi SMMlies, Yes your correct about that third rudder. It was built as the tail end of the skeg but made non operational later on. forrestal is sitting there without any props as well. I was told this about eight years ago that they were removed while in Phily and two of them went to the JFK while there in 96. I have a cousin who is a seal and they flew those guys from VA Beach to Newport for some underwater practice work on the CV-59 & 60. I asked him about the props and he confirmed this that CV-59 had non. He asked how did I know this. Jokingly I told him it was classified info. same as he said to me when I ask what they were doing under those ships. KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Keith Gabriel" Subject Scharnhorst Norway 1943 Colours? Hi Can anyone tell me what were the colours of the Scharnhorst during her operations in Norway in 1943. The references I have are a bit confusing, but from what I can tell she had white tipped bow and stern with dark grey midships. Incidentally does anyone know if this was indeed a true white or a very light grey. The only colour plates I have are from "Warships of the World 13" it shows her with dark grey, light grey and grey green upper surfaces at this time. Cheers, Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From Subject Re Colour matching >> I,m especially looking for Kure Navy Yard Gray. Do you know matching colors of other manufacturers? Here are available Tamyia, Gunze Sangyo << White Ensign Models (See their website) Colourcoats makes IJN Kure Grey number WEMCC IJN02. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Roland Mar Subject Re WW II National Emblems, Japanese and German flags >> Can any SMML people please explain the significance of the two flags used by Japan in WW 2 ? One was simply a large red disk on a plain white background. The other was similar, except it had "rays" extending outward from the disk, giving rise to the phrase "Land of the Rising Sun". I seem to recall seeing both used on Japanese ships, but I don't remember if they were both used on naval vessels, both used on civilian craft, or if there was a regulation governing the style. Nazi Germany had an optional use of its swastika. One application had the various straight lines oriented either horizontally or vertically, as the case may be. In other instances all the lines made an angle of 45 degrees with horizontal or vertical. The swastika was used not only on flags, but as a sort of logo on a wide variety of symbols. This curious mind would like to know what determined the use of one arrangement or of the other. << To Franklin There were specialized flags in use. The plain red disc on a white field was/is the Japanese national flag, the Hinomaru. It was flown on non-government owned vessels. The flag with the rays emanating from the disc was/is the naval ensign. There were also variations on the naval ensign with horizontal bars that are used to indicate the presence of flag officers of different ranks, similar to the admiral's flag on our vessels. German ensigns proliferated, as the Nazi's were symbol happy. As far as naval flags are concerned, the basic national colors were red field, white centered disc with a slanted Hakenkreuz [swastika]. This was flown on civilian vessels. Civilian vessels taken up into national service wore the Reich Service Flag, Red field, German eagle in gold in the canton, centered white disc with the Hakenkreuz, which I believe [typing from memory here, which may be faulty] was not slanted. Naval vessels wore the Reichskriegsfahne, Reich War Flag. This was the National flag, with wide black bars extending horizontally and vertically from the disc. The black bars were outlined in white, then with another thin black line. In the canton was a black Iron Cross [Maltese cross]. The presence of flag officers was denoted by a white flag quartered with black bars, with black dots in various locations denoting rank. I cannot remember for sure if the flag officer's flag was a burgee or not. There were other Nazi emblems that might have been flown at various times, if various government or NSDAP officials were aboard. Usually party official's flags had the Hakenkreuz vertical and not slanted, and were covered with batons, German eagles, Iron Crosses, and what not. This is just off the top of my head, but I hope it helps. Roland Mar ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "ARTHUR BOAK" Subject Usage of SS441 In the book Spitfire The History, when an aircraft is sent overseas the ship transporting it is named. However, in several cases there is not a name but SS441, 442, etc. Could this be some kind of Admiralty code, perhaps for specific ships used as aircraft transports? Graham Boak ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From "Bob Bartolacci" Subject Re WW 2 National emblems The flag with the rays was the Imperial Japanese Navy battle flag, flown on warships. The flag with just the large disk on a white background was the merchant flag, AFAIK "There are no great men. There are only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet." Admiral William "Bull" Halsey www.bobscorner.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From Steve Bryson Subject Questions for Art Herrick RE Yangtze Patrol Gunboats Hello, I suffered the dreaded hard drive crash a few months ago, and lost my contact information for Art Herrick. Art, if you see this, could you e-mail off-line at yangtzepatrol@sbcglobal.net? I have a couple of gunboat questions for you. Thank you, Steve Bryson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From "Mitsuaki Kubota" Subject British WW II Camo Colour Code Hi all, I have some question on British WW II camo colour code and name. 1. Are initialized letters (AP, MS, B or G) having any meaning like "BS" means "British Standards"? 2. Are these colour codes used only by Royal Navy, or widely recognized by other organization (i.e. private dockyard, paint maker or merchant navy)? 3. Some of reference book show colour codes accompanied with names, like "MS3, Dark Green Grey" or "PB10, Dark Ultramarine Blue". Are these colour names officially used by RN or Admiralty? Any suggestions are appreciated. Mitsuaki Kubota ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From "Mitsuaki Kubota" Subject Re Color matching Hi Damian, It is said No.32 of Gunze Sangyo (Now, this manufacture changed their name to "GSI Creos Corporation".) matches Yokosuka Grey. Kure Grey has slightly lighter tone than Yokosuka. If you can use Gunze colour, 85% of No.32 with 15% of no.13 (neutral grey) would match Kure Grey. FYI, Gunze also releases IJN grey assortment of three naval dockyard, including Kure, Sasebo and Maizuru. Item number is "CS-611". Hope this help. Mituaki Kubota ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume