Subject: SMML VOL 2745 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:05:30 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Post War USN Submarine Paint Colors 2 WWII Queen Mary 3 Re Salinity and buoyancy 4 Re Salinity and buoyancy 5 HMVCS Cerberus ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Ives100@aol.com Subject Re Post War USN Submarine Paint Colors The 1950-60's paint schemes for submarines did show considerable variation. My research indicates that Nautilus was launched in a lighter gray topsides, with black anti-foul below the waterline. An early color photo is on the following website http//www.subguru.com/nautilus/nautilus2.jpg Note the orange emergency buoy cover; these were painted the same color as the deck after sea trials, so that indicates that this is probably an early color photo. The black anti-foul is also visible. Here's another early color photo, same paint scheme http//www.subguru.com/nautilus/nautilus4.jpg Here's a couple of launch photos in B&W http//www.subguru.com/nautilus/nautilus_launch.jpg http//www.subguru.com/nautilus/nautilus_launch.gif Here's a color artists impression http//www.subguru.com/nautilus/under-the-ice.jpg Here's an unusual shot of her stern in drydock, after she had received the 7 bladed scimitar propellers http//www.subguru.com/nautilus/nautilus102.jpg The all black end of life paint scheme (which she currently sports as a museum ship http//www.subguru.com/nautilus/decommissioning_pamphlet.jpg In contrast, I have color photos of some of the Skipjack class being launched (in the late 50's early 60's) in the black over red scheme. In the case of EB's Skipjack & Scorpion, the red is half way down the hull, whereas MINSY's Scamp has red up to the freeboard waterline. http//www.uss-scamp.com/Scamp%20Image%20Library%201_files/588-Launching1.jpg In the mid 60's some of the submarines got a light gray vertical surface paint with dark black decks & tops. See Scorpion just before her loss http//www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h70000/h70305.jpg http//www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h70000/h70304.jpg So, as you have done, one needs to research carefully for each individual submarine and timer period. Have fun with your model! Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From David L Miller Subject WWII Queen Mary Hello, everyone! My aunt who is in her 80’s has asked me to build her a model of the Queen Mary. She told me that my uncle went over to Europe on the Queen when she was used as a troop ship in WWII. My research indicates that as a troop ship, the Queen was painted overall gray, but I still have some questions. The photos I have seen would lead me to paint the lifeboats a slightly darker gray than the ship. Is this correct? Was the natural wood deck painted gray, dark blue, or left unpainted. Was the Queen painted according to any camo measure? I would greatly appreciate any authoritative answers to these questions Regards, Dave Miller Macomb IL USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Mccullough, Vincent \(Mission Systems\)" Subject Re Salinity and buoyancy From KELVIN MOK >> Air is higly compressible and therefore has a much smaller volume at depth than at the surface. Thus when diving wouldn't the rate of dive increase with depth as the voulme of air gets smaller and therefore the sub's bouyancy decreases? << Your model is correct for a balloon, but not a sub. The volume doesn't decrease due to increased pressure, or at least not much. That's what the pressure hull is for. Of course, you'll get a dramatic decrease in volume if the hull implodes (bad for crew). And water is essentially uncompressible, so weight of the water that a sub displaces does not change with depth -- provided that other properties such as the salinity do not change. All things being equal a sub that is neutrally buoyant at the surface ought to be pretty close to neutral at depth. I suspect (I am no submariner) that in addition there are some other environmental effects -- temperature being one of them. I would expect the pressure hull to cool down a bit at depth, which would cause some contraction, with corresponding reduction in displacement and a corresponding (however slight) reduction in buoyancy. Vince McCullough ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Albert Choy Subject Re Salinity and buoyancy Rick, Thanks for the info on sub bouyancy. Most interesting. I am building an Engel's Gato sub (R/C). Your posts put a lot of things into operational perspective. thanks, Albert ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Peter the Artillerist" Subject HMVCS Cerberus In a recent posting (to do with card models) mention was made of the Cerberus. I would ask that anyone who has interest in the vessel go to the site www.cerberus.com.au Basically, the first moves to do heavy work on the ship will take place the week after next with the lifting of the four 10 Inch R.M.L.'s out if their turrets to be placed on the bay floor next to her. Exactly when will depend on the weather. This will take some 72 Tons of weight off her structure. The step after that is to fit supports to the hull that will keep it stable and level. The sad note I have is that there are some in this country, including one subscriber to SMML, who positively denigrate any notion that the vessel be saved. Yes, you may wonder why. But in addition to those who at least openly announce that any effort is a waste of time, there are those in field-related government organisations here that see no merit (or advantage?) in doing so and don't assist. If this were to be an equal project in the United States I don't think that the detractors would survive. Anyway, leaving that aside, those who have had the will and perserverence shall have their day soon. (Hip, Hip, ...) Peter Sydney, Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume