Subject: SMML VOL 2748 Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 03:26:43 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Ark Royal 2 Re USS Saratoga (CV-60) 3 Defense Tech TRICKED-OUT CATAMARAN READY TO SAIL 4 Lower Hull of Revell USS Massachusetts 5 Re Post War USN Submarine Paint Colors 6 Re Cerberus and such 7 Still no one is really interested in 1200 ? (and a few words on 1350) 8 Realistic planking and USS New Jersey deck shade ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Timlazenby@aol.com Subject Ark Royal is it possible to purchase working scale drawings of the current Ark Royal. I would be interested in making a working steel model of this great ship. Tim Lazenby ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Jerry Slagle" Subject Re USS Saratoga (CV-60) >> Does anybody know what Air Wing was assigned to the USS Saratoga (CV-60) during the Gulf War as well as what the squadrons were and the types of planes they flew? << Glenn, Go to http//www.history.navy.mil/branches/gulfob.htm The site has all the carriers and squadrons involved in that war. Hope this helps, Jerry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject Defense Tech TRICKED-OUT CATAMARAN READY TO SAIL http//www.defensetech.org/archives/001370.html Regards, John Kutina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Maarten Schönfeld Subject Lower Hull of Revell USS Massachusetts Hello, A few weeks I put in a request for the lower hull of 1720 HMS Hood, I got several responses, and the project is progressing well by now. Thanks all! I already started another project, this time converting the Hasegawa South Dakota into USS Indiana. For this I would like to have the lower hull of Revell's USS Massachusetts in 1720 scale. Is there someone who kept these inferior parts of the kit after cutting up the ship to make it into a waterline model? In that case I would gladly have them to make my own model into a complete ship! (Of course we will never agree about what a ship model should look like...!) Thanks in advance! Maarten Schönfeld The Netherlands ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Rick Nelson" Subject Re Post War USN Submarine Paint Colors Hi, When it comes to painting a submarine one can never go wrong with "Basic Black". However, at the end of WWII there were only two "official" camouflage paint schemes or "measures" for U.S. Submarines. The WWII U.S. Navy developed numerous camouflage measures. These were numbered 1 to 33. These measures were contained in a manual known as SHIPS-2, distributed by the Bureau of Construction and Repair (BuC&R), USN. These are explained in very good detail at www.steelnavy.com/usnchips.htm by Jon Warneke and Jeff Herne. As of July 1945 submarines were painted in Measure 33/3SS-B or popularly know as the "light gray job" and was very effective during surface operations, at night, and on overcast days. The other was Measure 32/9SS or known as the "dark gray job". This was the same basic pattern but with a darker level of grays. The particular colors and the areas of the submarine covered by a particular color are shown extremely well in diagrams on page 95 and 96 of "The Floating Drydock's Plan Book, Gato and Balo Class Submarines", ISBN 0-944055-06-0. The paints used in Measure 33/3SS-B and 32/9SS are 5-N Navy Blue FS35044 5-O Ocean Gray FS35164 5-H Haze Gray FS35237 5-L Light Gray FS36320 5-P Pale Gray FS35526 The above colors are obtained by mixing 5-M (Tinting Material) and 5-U Base (White) in varying ratios. There are two other colors used 20-B Deck Blue FS35042 BK Dull Black FS37040 With all of this said we now have a starting place for Tom Dougherty's statement, "So, as you have done, one needs to research carefully for each individual submarine and time period." The major time periods for modern subs that need to be considered are 1) launching and commissioning, 2) sea trials after overhauls and upkeeps, and 3) operational livery (which can change over time). I myself like to set a model in it's operational livery. This time period also precludes a lot of painting seen like hull numbers, red-lead (anti-fouling). As submarines evolved from the fleetboat to the GUPPY conversions to the tear-drop hull to the nuclear submarine the operational paint schemes remained basically two; all black, and black and medium gray. Some photos may show variations in the black areas but this could be due to wetting or different age of the paint. When a submarine is fresh out of the yards it will often have a red-lead lower hull and hull numbers and depth-of-keel numbers. During sea trials after construction and after upkeep periods the Emergency Messenger buoys will be painted international orange for greater visibility. When a sub goes on operational patrols the hull numbers, red-lead, and emergency messenger buoys are painted over. In fact the Emergency Messenger buoys are permanently welded to the hull so that they do not "inadvertently" escape if the ocean water should get too "rough". The first of the two "operational" paint schemes, all black, is self-explanatory. The second scheme, black and medium gray, needs some explaining. The submarine is painted all black except for the vertical surface on the sail and, if the sub is a missile boat the vertical surface on the superstructure housing the missile tubes. These two areas are painted medium gray. This second scheme has been referred to as the "Mediterranean" camouflage. In both cases the "depth-of-keel numbers" are always kept on both the bow and the rudder. Once you have looked at the diagrams in "The Floating Drydock's Plan Book, Gato and Balo Class Submarines" I think you will come away with the sense that the paint scheme for a modern submarine is much simpler that for a fleetboat. Rick Nelson "Damn the Pressure, Six-Zero feet!" "Boomers Hide With Pride" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From chris Tilley Subject Re Cerberus and such So Carpo wants her in the 'Manly Scale' eh? Well, it's back to me promoting card again. The Cerberus kit available from Paper Shipwright (via the Save the Cerberus website), is 1/250 scale, so if you want one in 1/350, simply print it out then make a 71% or 72% photocopy onto card. The former scales out at 1/347, the latter 1/352, which are close-ish. Or is THAT too much work! It's not like she even has to be painted! Both the Cerberus kits so far show her in 'completed / travelling' configuration, but there's plenty of reference on her website to do the simple conversions to her later configurations, as I intend to. Though it's perfectly true that they're the prototypes for later fore-and-aft turret battleships like Devastation, her sister Thunderer, and the (1879) Dreadnought, that set the pattern for all the mastless battleships, strictly speaking Cerberus and her sister Magdala are monitors, not battleships. Anyone fancy trying a major conversion of the card Cerberus into a Devastation? The turret battleships are roughly 26% larger, so that's another photocopy job and some judicious re-drawing of details. Hmm, maybe... Of course, doing the conversion to the Combrig kit ends up with a model about 1/770 scale... I'm just glad we're finally getting some more RN pre-dreadnoughts and late Victorian vessels. Say, Combrig, how about some cruisers of the period next? Anyone else fancy a Drake (Good Hope) or Monmouth or a Cressy (bit of a theme there with vessels most famous for being sunk!)? What about a Powerful? While I'm on a wish list, how about some more pre-Dreadnought etch-brass sets? A QF gun set would be particularly welcome. How about it White Ensign? I can see those mind-destroyingly fiddly Nordenfelts now. Oh, and while I'm on that subject, for those of you interested the Pit-road detail set for the Seals IJN pre-Dreadnoughts (Mikasa, Hashidate, Iwate etc.) has suddenly become available again after apparently being deleted last year. Yay! Chris Tilley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From Bevilacqua Luca Subject Still no one is really interested in 1200 ? (and a few words on 1350) Dear all, first of all thanks to everybody who replied to my first mail on the subject. I especially thank Graeme Martin whose excellent ships deserve seeing at http//www.shipmodels.co.nz/. I really regret that the kits he suggested are a bit too pricey and difficult to work with for a person of my skills. Anyway, the Aeronaut 1200 kits (plastic hulls) make me even more convinced that a tipical 1200 WWII battleship hull can be successfully delivered by today injection moulding technology. This is not to detract from the value of the caution words given by those builders who dealt with the 1200 Nichimo Yamato monster. I am sure fit/rigidity problems there are really headhaches. I think tough that the problem there lies mainly in old & poor mould technology. After all my 1350 Nimitz is not far from being 1 meter long and fit is very good. A 1200 Bismarck would be 1.25 m. long (a 30 % increase over Nimitz) and by no means wider than the Nimitz. Hull lines are also simpler than the Nimitz ones. I definitely think it could be managed. Storage and assembly space is an anyone's issue, tough. As far as marketing is concerned I suspect many fellow modellers would rather see new kits in 1350 to complement their existing collection, than start on a new scale with very few kits to choose among. Nevertheless I would like at least Trumpeter to assess the market potential of the idea. Paper models are very interesting, but I think few of us have the time to learn/improve on a new set of skills. If Trumpeter does not come up with any new 1200 release, I will stick to 1350. ByTheWay any rumors on fortcoming 1350 releases apart from the North Carolina). Nimitz, Liberty ship, Kutnetsov and lady Lex were rumored about long before, is Trumpeter thinking of pausing a bit? ByTheWay 2 possible that Tamiya simply gave up on 1350 subjects, is it really impossible to compete with Trumpeter? ByTheWay 3 here is my wish list for 1350 1) Italian BB Vittorio Veneto 2) French battleship Richelieu 3) USN battlecruiser Alaska 4) HMS Hood 5) Japanese carrier Zuikaku Ciao a tutti Luca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Bevilacqua Luca Subject Realistic planking and USS New Jersey deck shade Dear all, while waiting to see larger scales I started building the Tamiya 1350 BB62. I'd like to build her right out of the renewal. I've seen B/W photos that seem to indicate a very light deck, bach then. Anyone knows wheter the ship was replanked when modernized, or the light color is because of old (paled) plancks? BTW (sorry to compe up with old issue again) I have often tried the "planking effect" method suggested by Rusty White and Loren Perry. I simply think my skills and tools are not up to the task. In Italy I cannot easily find tiny stripes, so I have to cut Tamiya tape and I find difficult to mantain a constant small width. Besides I only get easy access to Tamiya acrilics and Humbrol enamels, with the former preferred to comply with wife's diktats. Giving several cotes in different shades always results in the finish being dusty (what is the mistake, I've tried thinning diffrently, spraying closer, ..). Besides keeping stripes parallel strains my eyes. I also tried various pastel chalks tecnicques with even inferior results. All in all a real pain in the ... At present I am considering reverting to old plain Deck Tan. any suggestion/technology improvement? BTW 2 I particularly like the effect achieved by Andy Elwood in his ships (very clear yellowish tan). Not being a marine expert I am not sure about that being realistic tough. Ciao to everybody Luca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume