Subject: SMML VOL 2751 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:04:04 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re 1200 scale Ships 2 Re paint 3 Re submarine hull colors (Con't.) 4 USS Olympia 5 Re Sub hull colors (con't. even more...) 6 Re HMS Thunder Child 7 Re Realistic planking and USS New Jersey deck shade -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 Re submarine hull colors (Con't.) 2 Heller Victory and AOTS For Sale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Sab1156@aol.com Subject Re 1200 scale Ships Hi Greame, I have a comment to your letter Due to the size of the USA,many model-builders are thinking,that we are the number one for the model manufacturers,which is indeed not right.The most produced plastic models are sold in Japan.For example,Tamiya is selling around 80% of all their models at home! Best Regards Detlef Hartwig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "John Snyder" Subject Re paint >> I have painted a US WWII ship with White Ensign Models 5-n navy blue & 20-b deck blue and I can't see any shade difference. it my eyes or are these the same colour. << Hi Janine, It's not your eyes. Those two colours are very close. They ARE different, but not by much as you can see from the Munsell references 5-N Navy Blue = Munsell 5PB 3/2; Deck Blue 20-B = Munsell 5PB 3/4. They are both purple-blues in the same hue (3), and only the chroma differs, with Deck Blue being slightly more blue. Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Rick Nelson" Subject Re submarine hull colors (Con't.) Tom Dougherty states, >> I'm sorry, but that is just not true. As pointed out by John Snyder, the hulls are not all-black operationally. << Like many issues surrounding the submarine service I don't think there are any hard and fast rules on paint schemes especially considering the span of time I thought we were discussing (50+ years). I could probably come up with as many photos of all-black hulls as others could come up with anti-fouling hulls. Having literally "rubbed the belly of the beast" I know for a fact that there have been operational nuclear submarines that were all-black after they were red in the construction phase. That's all I was trying to state. Be careful before you say ". . . not true". We should start a separate discussion about all the various colors the Albacore was painted above and below the waterline but then I'm sure someone would argue that she wasn't an "operational" boat. But let's not loose sight of what the original objective was and I thought it was a discussion on what "different" paint configurations there have been and what the modeler has as choices depending on the era he wishes to capture. No one limited the discussion to "Submarines as of 2005". Yes, the "Mediterranean" paint job may have been a '60s do but it is still a valid configuration depending on the boat you are building. Some of the 608 class FBMs had a large (10' x 4' x 3') sonar dome on their bow during the '60s but that is not seen very often either. Take a look at the next "Emergency Blow" (a very popular photo op) you see and check out the hull bottom. Tom also states, "Time frame matters in modeling." I'm surprised that he didn't take this truth into consideration more in his response. Rick Nelson "Damn the Pressure, Six-Zero feet!" "Boomers Hide With Pride" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Sean Obrien Subject USS Olympia I have built the Revell Olympia, and right now on ebay there are 2 other kits, one by Pyro, and one by Lindburg. Are these all the same molds or are they all different? Has any body built them before? Thanks, Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Ives100@aol.com Subject Re Sub hull colors (con't. even more...) John Snyder wrote >> Not necessarily so. In fact, the photos of the Los Angeles-class USS San Francisco in drydock after her recent underwater collision clearly shows that she carries a red lower hull (photo forwarded for posting on SMML). << Rick Nelson wrote >> I suggest that you take a closer look at the San Francisco in drydock. The black that was applied over the red has worn off quite a bit but not entirely. Like I said first comes red, then comes black over it. Attached is a picture of a boomer in drydock after a couple of 65 day patrols. Quite a bit of warn paint below the waterline. << No, John is correct. The submarines are usually (not always) painted red from halfway down the hull, and black from halfway up.There is usually NOT a black coating over the red. Why would the black only wear off from the lower hull, and leave such a relatively neat demarkation line? In some isolated cases, the hulls were done in all black; I've seen some Sturgeons that had that scheme. For the most part, drydock photos show the black-red scheme. Here's some more photos, including a diesel boat in the 1960's. Check out these paint jobs http//www.navsource.org/archives/08/0856705.jpg http//www.ussdrum.org/launch-2.html http//www.ussdrum.org/dry-dock87-1.html http//www.ussdrum.org/dry-dock87-2.html http//www.la-ex.org/View_Photos/1982_Dry_Dock/1982_Dry_Dock_-_SSN-688_docked/1982_dry_dock_-_ssn-688_docked.html If one looks on Don Murphy's outstanding Casimir Pulaski website, you can see a boomer in drydock after patrols and before repainting. The lower hull gets real crusty, and has a ratty orange sheen with big patches of paint missing. repainting would consist of sandblasting, priming, and painting the hull. Usually this is black half way up & red half way down. This was true through the Los Angeles and Ohio classes, as well as the Seawolf. The new Virginia class appears to be done in all black, as was the Jimmy Carter (SSN-23). Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Ken Goldman" Subject Re HMS Thunder Child Forget the painting, I think of Thunder Child as being more like the ram torpedo gunboat USS Alarm. You can take a look at www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-a/alarm.htm Ken Goldman author USS CHARLES CARROLL APA 28 an amphibious history of World War II ISBN 1-4120-2114-6 available from Trafford Publishing www.trafford.com/robots/03-2662.html and www.amazon.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Tom Detweiler" Subject Re Realistic planking and USS New Jersey deck shade To Luca and all I would think deck planking would be one of those areas where copier/reproduction technology would be workable. That is, you draw a pattern on your computer using one of the paint or draw or better yet CAD programs, in a larger scale, say 1/80 for the larger wood models. You can either find a good background of wood grain to use and shrink it, or use a real veneer to copy for background, Then you shrink it down to whatever scale you need on a good copier, which will shrink lines down to engraver fineness. You cut out what you need and make a template for the decks and glue it down. This idea I thought was kicked around a bit when discussing the Bismarck a while ago. Tom D ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "John Snyder" Subject Re submarine hull colors (Con't.) >> I included the FS numbers because Ron ( the author of the origional article) was asking about what colors to use and since paints based on "Munsell Book of Color" are not available (as far as I know) and FS paints are this is the closest curent recommendation. << Colourcoats enamels accurately matching the USN WW2/Munsell Book of Color paints have been available since 2001, and we sell LOTS of them. FS matches to them is not current information. Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "George Borlase" Subject Heller Victory and AOTS For Sale Hello everyone, I am selling a Heller 1/100 HMS Victory with the Anatomy of the Ship series book. The kit has been opened, but has all the pieces, and almost all of the internal bags have not been opened. The kit includes all the vacuformed sails. The AOTS book is brand new, I bought it two months ago in Annapolis at the Naval Institiute Bookstore. The kit and book are US$100, shipping included to anywhere in the continental US, funds by check or money order. For shipping outside the continental US, I will only ask for actual shipping costs. Please contact me at gborlase@comcast.net if interested, or with any questions. Thanks in advance, George Borlase ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume