Subject: SMML VOL 2791 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 01:43:14 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Brig Irving Johnson 2 Re ULCC Tankers 3 Re Brig Irvine Johnson 4 European Naval buffs 5 Re Sub Props and vertical fins 6 Re Brig Irving Johnson 7 Brigantine Irving Johnson 8 Re New (?) Aoshima and Bismarck kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 Re FROG (ex Airfix) Ship kits (full hull) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Ouellette, Lawrence M" Subject Re Brig Irving Johnson John wrote >> ABC-News reported on air and online that the 90' 2-masted brigantine Irving Johnson ran aground off S. California Monday and that the crew and passengers were rescued by the USCG. However, there has been no follow-up as to what happened the ship. Does anyone here know? << This link has some pictures of her aground http//www.latitude38.com/LectronicLat/2005/0305/Mar22/Mar22.html Her home page now says she is free and floating, with some damage http//lamitopsail.org/ Just found this http//www.latitude38.com/LectronicLat/2005/0305/Mar25/Mar25.html#anchor1085433 Good news! Larry Ouellette Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http//www.uss-salem.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Dave Swindell Subject Re ULCC Tankers Hi Kelvin I can't think of any technical reasons why you couldn't build an 800,000 ton tanker. With compulsory double hulls it could be built as stiff as is required; and as I said, tankers are relatively low powered ships so there would be no problem sourcing a suitable power plant. With its very high block coefficient and slow speed parametric rolling shouldn't be a problem (a major headache for big box ships, and would also be a problem for your 500,000 ton carrier) You would however be up against a few significant logistical and financial problems. You would need a suitable dry-dock, all classification societies require docking every five years. You would need suitable deep water berthing or mooring facilities at each end of it's run. You would need to consider draught restrictions on it's intended route, and cost in dredging or diversions. You would have to find a P&I Club willing to take the risks. You then have to calculate whether the economies of scale outweigh the costs and investment involved. As no one to my knowledge has done this yet, I suspect that they don't. Dave Swindell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Richa5011@aol.com Subject Re Brig Irvine Johnson This privately built and operated sail training vesssel was built in the 1990's along a companion, appropriately named - Exie Johnson (Irving's wife and sailing companion for decades). After two unsucessful attempts to pull her off the sand, they succeeded on Thursday's high tide. There are plans to repair the ship, but it had not yet found it's way into a drydock for examination of the damage...we'll have to see what will actually happen. Nat ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Darren Scannell Subject European Naval buffs I have a request for help from a friend of mine here in Canada. Dave Freeman is an ex Naval Officer and Author of an excellent book on Canadian Naval naming traditions. He is looking for contacts for the Dutch, French, Greek and Indian Navies. To be precise, a historian who speaks and writes English, has Email, is knowledgeable about the Second World War period and has access to some photographs of selected ships in that era. ( For a new book, I assume) Is anybody here willing/able to help out? Please let me know and I will put you in touch with Dave. Thanks! Darren Scannell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "DUANE A CURTIS" Subject Re Sub Props and vertical fins I was assigned to USS Puffer SSN 652 and we had the vertical fins that you have talked about. these were part of the sonar system for listening around the sub. As for most of the other Sturgeon class all of the one's that I have seen in San Diego and in Bremerton Shipyard all had the vertical fins located on the stern planes. Duane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Pirie and Kathy" Subject Re Brig Irving Johnson Last report she was still on the rocks. The latest salvage attempt was a failure. Pirie Sublett San Diego ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "William B Luther" Subject Brigantine Irving Johnson Dear Shane, Lorna And fellow SMMLies, In as much as I am probably the closest to the "horses mouth" as anyone on the list when it comes to the Irving Johnson, I thought I'd respond to JohmM's question, "what happened to the Irving Johnson after her grounding?" For those not familiar with the story, the Irving Johnson is a 90 ft wooden brigantine that went aground at the entrance to Channel Island Harbor in Oxnard, California. Channel Islands is about 65 miles north of San Pedro, the Irving's home port. I am a naval architect and was the project engineer for the Los Angeles Maritime Institute's "Twin Brigantines" project. Yes, there is another one, the Exy Johnson. The only difference between them is their trim color, Irving's is blue and Exy's is red. The Los Angeles Maritime institute is an affiliate of the Los Angeles Maritime Museum. The Vessels are operated as sail training ships for at risk youth and other young people in the Los Angeles area. Go to www.lamitopsail.org to find out more about their program. We have been having stormy weather along the coast here in SoCal for the last few weeks. This weather has been blamed for the sand bar that formed at the entrance to Channel Islands Harbor, supposedly over night. The sand bar reduced the channel to ~8 ft depth, most vessels using Channel Islands Harbor don't draw that much, so it was not noticed before the Irving hit it with her 11 ft. draft. By the way they where watching the fathometer, it showed 19 ft amidships when the bow hit, that's how rapidly the channel shoaled. The seas at this time were pretty big and on her beam, they immediately swung her around and she hit the beach after coming into contact with the breakwater before control could be regained. The breakers on the beach were too rough for boats to come alongside nor to allow the launching of any of the Irving's own boats or rafts. The Ventura County Sheriff Department's, Rough Water Rescue Team went in with their jet skis and picked up the students and crew as they went into the water one by one. The need to get students and crew to safety, the confusion of the grounding and the usual communication problems all combined to prevent adequate salvage assets (read that as tugs, hawsers and equipment) from getting on scene soon enough to prevent the Irving from becoming thoroughly stuck in the sand. I won't go into a blow by blow description of the salvage efforts for the next 4 days except to say, they broke 3 tow lines using successively bigger lines and tugs before we finally got her off the beach Thursday night at about ~815 using 3 tugs and very large tow lines. Her forefoot was chewed up pretty badly on the rocks and caused a leak in the forward berthing compartment but nothing the pumps couldn't handle. Unfortunately, there was not time to secure and/close all the vents and windows before the crew had to leave the ship. This allowed a great deal of water from the surf breaking over the vessel to flood almost all the compartments, I think the lazarette may have stayed dry. The longest a vessel had ever survived on that beach had been 2 days, the Irving survived over 4 days and held together. The Irving proved she was one tough boat. She is designed to German Lloyds rules. Her stem, forefoot, knees, keel and dead wood are purple heart. The frames and horn timber are laminated white oak, made by the same firm that makes frames for the U.S. Navy's mine sweepers. Bottom planking, floors, bilge stringers and keelson are South American locust. Topside planking, shelves, clamps, deck beams and deck planking are Douglas fir. We also fitted her with four, 5/16" X 5" bronze diagonal straps to each side of her hull and the deck with 2 sets of "X" straps of the same material. All fasteners are bronze. I spent Friday morning inspecting her, except for the forefoot, structurally she seems to be in pretty good shape. It's below deck she is a real mess. The sloshing water in the compartments really tore things up and virtually destroyed most of the systems. Fortunately, cleaning her up and redoing her systems is a lot easier that building a new replacement. That's it for the moment, She'll be hauled early next week and we'll get a better look at her damage, if you are interested I will keep the list informed. Fair winds, following seas and keep keep your leadsman far forward, Bill Luther ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "Mitsuaki Kubota" Subject Re New (?) Aoshima and Bismarck kits Yes, it is entirely new tools. I have heard that the parts are injected in China, but there are no parts sharing with Dragon or Trumpeter (here in Japan, released from Pit-Road) Aoshima did very good job on recent Nagato or Takao re-tooling, so many of Japanese modellers expected Aoshima new Bismarck. Sadly, the kit doesn't get good evaluation from Japanese modellers. One of the reason is that the Aoshima is less moulded compared with Dragon and Trumpeter. Surely, most of vertical side of upperworks don't have any moulds like porthole, doors or ladder. To detail vertical side, Trumpeter separates the upperworks parts to vertical sides and decks. Dragon used gum parts. OTOH Most of Aoshima upperworks are moulded in traditional method of injecting the parts vertically with side and decks in one piece. But Aoshima aimed "easy to build, but good appearance" kit. I had once talked with Mr. Yamashita of Aoshima at Hobby Show, and I had such impression from him. Surely, Aoshima Bismarck has very beautiful half breadth line. I have impression that the beamiest section of Trumpeter hull is offsetted slightly forward than midship. One of disappointments for me is that Aoshima moulded the shelter deck with hull in one piece. Aoshima is releasing also Tirpitz, so some area of shelter decks are moulded separately from main component to identify the differences between two sister ship. It would force modellers to fill the gap with putty and re-mould the deck planking after putty dried. I think Aoshima should mould shelter deck separately from hull. (Dragon shelter deck part is moulded in this way. I only bought Dragon Bismarck, and don't see their Tirpitz. But I think Dragon developed different shelter deck parts for two ships.) FYI, Tamiya destroyer is special bonus for first rot, so it would disappear from second rot. Also it is Aoshima's common custom to release PE parts including version or special guidance book including version after the release of normal version. Probably, Aoshima would release these versions also in Bismarck, some months or some years later. So I recommend waiting for a while if you want to buy Aoshima Bismarck. (Tamiya Z destroyer is poor in today's standard, so I think you needn't to buy first rot in a hurry.) Anyhow, it is sure that Aoshima Bismarck has good potential. If you want detailing the kit "BY YOURSELF", less moulded Aoshima kit would offer good basis rather than Dragon or Trumpeter. Hope these helps. Mitsuaki ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "John Snyder" Subject Re FROG (ex Airfix) Ship kits (full hull) Hi Harold, That's not news we've been selling that kit and the Repulse at that price for months now. In fact, it appears that Hannants set their price according to ours. ;^) Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume