Subject: SMML VOL 2818 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:29:06 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Scales 2 Re Scales 3 Re Sometimes life is hard [ ships sunk WW I & WW II ] 4 Re Scales 5 1/24 scale figures 6 1/20 FIGURES 7 HMS Campbeltown 8 Scales 9 Re Wire ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Steven P.Allen Subject Scales >> I follow that there are differences in scale for different places, but can anyone say why? For example, I understood the North American "HO" was 1/87, but the English equivalent was "OO" and that was 1/96 (based on 1/8" = 1 foot), which makes good sense, but how did 1/87???? << English OO is 1/76 on HO track. HO is 1/87 because it is Half 0 (note zero, not oh). 0 (or O nowadays) was not originally a SCALe but a track GAGUE, specifically, 1.25" That is a SCALE of 1/43.5 (or thereabouts). You'll note the the die cast auto collectors still use that scale. American O became 1/48 fairly early, but English O is still 1/43, and European is 1/45 (metrics handle multiples of 5 more easily, which is also why you have 1/32 vs 1/35 and 1/700 [and its derivative, 1/350] vs 1/720). Steve Allen BTW, there is a modeling RR community that uses 1/48 scale on 1 3/16" track called Proto48. There is also a Proto87 group that corrects the track gauge to a true 1/87 for HO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Mike Subject Re Scales >> I follow that there are differences in scale for different places, but can anyone say why? For example, I understood the North American "HO" was 1/87, but the English equivalent was "OO" and that was 1/96 (based on 1/8" = 1 foot), which makes good sense, but how did 1/87???? Importantly, when do we get to have nifty for 1/700 and 1/350? I'm proposing that 1/1200 be called "TS" scale, for "too small". << The first scales that are spoken of are railroad scales. US "HO", or , more correctly as I have been told, "H0" (Half Zero), is half of British "0" (Zero) scale. In its metric form, "H0" is 3.5mm to the foot, and "0" is 7mm to the foot. British "00" scale is 4mm to the foot, or about 1/76 scale. British "000" scale is 2mm to the foot. From "0" scale, scales go up at least through "1" and "2"; probably farther but I have seen examples of these. Scale is not to be confused with gauge, which is another discussion best done away from this forum. These scales blur into the shipbuilding side with 1/72, which is almost (and I repeat ALMOST for the rivet counters) 1/76, or "00" scale. I believe 1/72 was created for wartime ID models but am not sure. As for 1/350 and 1/700, You got me. I am glad that somebody did the 1/700, though, because my house isn't big enough for 1/350 or larger.... V/R, Mike Who is happy to see USCG stuff in any scale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Arthur Herrick" Subject Re Sometimes life is hard [ ships sunk WW I & WW II ] >> I just came across some information about a passenger liner that was torpedoed by the Germans in WWI ( abandoned,then recovered) and then also in WWII (sunk). Speculation how many ships were damaged in both wars? << Paul, I guess you are interested in merchant sunk and damaged by German U-boats during both WW I and WW II. There is a great Web Site Covering this subject http//www.uboat.net/index.html Two books in my maritime reference library cover the subject in regards to WW II 1. 'A CARELESS WORD ... A NEEDLESS SINKING', by Capt. Arthur R. Moore. This book in tabular format covers the accounts of 757 American flag ships, and over 6,000 merchant seaman who lost their lives in WW II. It has 560 pages in 8 1/2 x 11 format. 2. AXIS SUBMARINE SUCCESSES 1939-1945, by JURGEN ROHWER. This book is in tabular format, and covers all the Axis partners in WW II. Part I lists the outcome of every successful submarine attack reported by the Axis partners. Presented by theater of operation and listed chronologically. Part II is comprised of detailed indexes, allows the reader to locate quickly the successful attacks of individual submarines and commanders, and the name of every ship that was sunk or damaged. 386 pages in 6 1/4 x 8 format. Art Herrick Westmoreland, New Hampshire USA 42° 57' 47.4" N --- 72° 26' 18.9" W --- Altitude 465 ft. Nautical Research Guild ( http//www.naut-res-guild.org/ ) USS Constitution Model Shipwright Guild ( http//www.constitution-modelshipwrights.org ) Upper Valley Ship Model Guild ( Hanover NH ) - ( tigaramal@msn.com ) 1776 Brigantine LEXINGTON Practicum ( http//www.briglex.org/ ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "GRAHAM BOAK" Subject Re Scales O gauge was 1/43rd, 7mm to the foot, and a common scale for prewar diecast cars - Dinky Toys - and railways. But for railways this was a big toy, only for rich people. The Germans came up with some smaller electrical engines, so they invented Half O - HO, which was 3.5mm or 1/87th. However, for historical reasons British locomotives were smaller that those on the continent, so they came up with 4mm to the foot scale bodies on 3.5mm to the foot track - OO gauge, or 1/76th. A similar thing happened in N gauge. 1/96th was just around. Ship plans were generally 1 inch to 100 ft, 1/1200 scale. Bigger plans were easily 1/600 - hence the two main ship scales. There was also the easily-related 1/400, mainly on the Continent. But the evil Japanese plotted to share out their own market and dreamed up 1/700. Because these were as detailed as 1/600, but finer, people bought them. Then some idiot thought of making bigger ones in 1/350. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Rod" Subject 1/24 scale figures OK, now don't laugh, but Preiser makes a couple of sets of 1/24 scale naked people. One set contains men, the other contains women and they are very anatomically correct. The photos on the boxes show the figures clothed as Roman warriors, queens, etc. It wouldn't be too hard to either sculpt them or repaint them after removing certain details (OUCH!!!). You could even re-clothe them if you really wanted to. They are available through Walthers. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "DUCKMAN" Subject 1/20 FIGURES HOWDY ALL, TRY ANY GOOD "G" SCALE, OR GARDEN RAILROAD SITE. A GOOD SHOT MIGHT BE WALTHER'S. HOPE THIS HELPS, DAVID IN DIXIE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Stephen Allen" Subject HMS Campbeltown The answer George, is no. There is no readymade conversion kit for the Revell four piper. Perhaps the best near term chance is the promised release of a series of 1/400 flush deckers from Mirage, including a Campbeltown. regards Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "malcolm & gill" Subject Scales Hi John, As a railway modeller I might be able to throw some light on the reason the “scales” you mention exist, they are from model railway terminology, the number actually relates to the model track gauge not scale. The originally model railway gauges were 1,2,3 & 4 Gauge 4 being the largest, as most full size railways use the standard gauge of 4’ 8 Ύ” the gauge number became associated with a particular scale. At the start of the 20th Century the smallest commonly used gauge was Gauge 1 having a track gauge of 45mm which equated to a scale of approximately 1/32 depending on prototype and at that time was the smallest gauge in which practical steam powered models could be made. Due to the development of small affordable electric motors around the turn of the 20th Century, a smaller model gauge was developed, this was called ‘0’ Gauge which ran on 32mm track and was approximately 1/43 scale, further miniaturisation of motors brought about HO gauge the “H” indicating half “0” having a track gauge of 16.5mm and a nominal scale of 1/87.HO quickly became the standard Continental model railway gauge for electric powered models. Things at this point in the UK started to go astray, Frank Hornby of Meccano fame decided after WWI to introduce into the UK a HO gauge model railway system. He found that the motors then available would not readily fit into most 1/87 scale British model locomotives, (British locomotives being generally smaller than equivalent foreign designs). Hornby overcame this problem by fudging the model dimensions, he decided to produce models with 1/76 scale bodies, wheels etc but with axles lengths suited for HO track. This allowed the use of existing HO track, hence saving on cost, this mixture of scales he called “00” and has become the excepted mainstream British scale/gauge, (This would be akin to building a ship model with hull beam dimensions 13% less than there correct scale width) After WWII attempts were made by a few British modellers to correct this discrepancy by introducing EM and P4 gauges these being track gauges of 18mm & 18.83mm respectively ,but they have never been widely taken up by the mainstream model railway community. The post WWII smaller scale/gauges such as N gauge have continued to perpetuate this error in the UK. It is therefore impossible with any certainty especially in the UK to connect a gauge with a scale. I won’t even try to explain the other examples of scale gauge relationships such On30 , 009, S, TT3,Sn3, 00n3 etc, Malcolm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "Mccullough, Vincent \(Mission Systems\)" Subject Re Wire Rick Nelson asked >> Does Pelican have a web site that you can place an order on? Do you have their URL? << Yep. Go to http//ec-securehost.com/PelicanWireCo.Inc./ And you can order online. Vince McCullough ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume