Subject: SMML VOL 2844 Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 01:56:38 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re "Tackle" 2 Re proper pronunciation 3 Re Early Destroyer Colors 4 Re Franklin 5 Re Liberty Ship Gun Tubs 6 Re seawolf submarine 7 Re proper pronunciation 8 Re Misc 9 Origin of the saying 10 Norfolk, Virginia 11 BUNKER HILL & FRANKLIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Ron Subject Re "Tackle" From Fritz Koopman >> P.S. Now, as for discussing the meanings of some less archaic sayings that have more specific meanings, shall we take the classic phrase "Caught between the Devil and the deep blue sea!" -) Yes, it means a person is screwed, but do people on the List know why? Wasn't the "devil" the wedge used to drive caulking into the seams? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 6) > From "Paul Giltz" > Subject Re proper pronunciation > > Hey Franklyn! > > What is the proper pronunciation for " Norfolk, Virginia"? This will probably get censored but I learned to speak there....Nofuck, Vahginyuh is how the locals pronounce it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Ron Subject Re proper pronunciation From "Paul Giltz" >> What is the proper pronunciation for " Norfolk, Virginia"? << This will probably get censored (yup - way too many bounces come back if left in Shane) but I learned to speak there....Nof$%k, Vahginyuh is how the locals pronounce it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Bruce Buchner Subject Re Early Destroyer Colors I think the colors that were given are reversed. It should be bottle green for the early years and gray for WWI. Alden's "American Steel Navy" has a section on the tests that the Navy conducted around the turn of the century to determine the optimal color for torpedo boats during night attacks. They found bottle green to be best. Gray was used later when the effective range of more advanced torpedoes was long enough to make daylight attacks possible. While almost everyone instinctively believes black is the best color for night operations it is not. There is always some degree of ambient light at night. That is why starlight scopes work. A black object is always darker than the background and can stand out. The Navy found the green to blend better with the sea and the sky at night. Green was not as effective during the day hence the change to gray. A few more modern examples can be given. In WWII the Luftwaffe figured this out fairly quickly and changed the color of their night fighters from black to patterned light blue and gray to better blend with the clouds and sky. The RAF Bomber Command never did and kept a very dark color scheme that silhouetted the plane against the sky and the clouds. The RN used the light Western Approaches scheme to reduce the U-Boat’s ability to spot and oncoming escort against the horizon. On the other hand the U-2 and SR-71 used black because at the altitudes they flew the sky above them was black and no other aircraft could get above them to see them against the clouds. Rumor has it that the F-117 stealth fighter was supposed to be painted gray and a very high ranking Air Force General insisted they be black because they were going to fly at night. Sorry for the long winded answer to a short question. Bruce Buchner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Hank Lapa" Subject Re Franklin I need to correct myself. Bunker Hill is the WW2-fit Essex carrier which was quite intact into the 70s, used in various tests. I remember taking the harbor cruise, and how purple Hill looked at the time. I read that Franklin was essentially a new ship from the hangar deck on up. Even with her damage, I believe she started Magic Carpet ops in 1945 and went until 1947. Perhaps the rebuild was fast because the planned invasion of the main islands was still a huge concern. Post-war, as jets were ushered in, most of the straight-decks in mothballs were redesignated as aircraft transports, and a few were redesignated as helo carriers. Fortunately, the Navy restores original designations before striking a ship. Much more dignified. That's the only good part of losing Enterprise. in 58-59. We still seem to miss more chances than we exploit. Some day, we all could live the Franklin's worst days by virtual methods. Hank ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Math Mathiasen" Subject Re Liberty Ship Gun Tubs >> How difficult would it be to civilianize the Trumpeter Jeremiah O'Brien into a generic civilian Liberty ship, post WW2. My initial guess would be to remove the guns and gun tubs, and paint it black hull, white superstructure, and find out the lines funnel colors. I am sure that there must be more. I think that a number of Liberty Ships went into civilian colors with their gun tubs intact. << After World War Two the rule was - If it was not required by law, needed to be mantained, and you could not carry cargo in it. Get rid of it!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "keith bender" Subject Re seawolf submarine Hi SMMLies, The propulsor for the Seawolf and her sisters is black. You can really paint it Floquil Grimy Black and it will match dead nuts on. I worked on the units and seen them when they came in the yard in pieces then we assembled them on the boat. It's really an amazing piece of work and the tolerances are really tight for it's size. Hope this helps, Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "keith bender" Subject Re proper pronunciation Hi SMMLies, I can answer the question about how to pronounce Norfolk, VA the way us sailors did and still do but I don't think they will appreciate it on this web site, Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject Re Misc To Fritz Koopman. Thank you for your response. I have no idea where the expression "Between the Devil and the deep blue sea" came from. Please enlighten us. To Paul Giltz. I do know the correct pronunciation of Norfolk (as do most people living on or around Boston, Mass., where our Norfolk county is south of Suffolk county), but we have lady modelers as well as youngsters who read SMML. See my reply off-line. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From Reynold.Oh@defence.gov.au Subject Origin of the saying George Oh from Sydney, Aust here. I understand that caulking was required between the deck timbers of old square-rigged sailing ships. And I believe that the outer-most joint to be caulked was nicknamed 'the Devil' probably because it was 'a devil to do'. There wasn't much ship outboard of 'the Devil' hence the saying "Between the Devil and the deep blue sea". If I am wrong, it is because I am only relaying info that I have read, and besides, I AM a land-lubber. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From Reynold.Oh@defence.gov.au Subject Norfolk, Virginia George Oh again, I pronounce it "NOR - FOKE, VER - GIN - E- A". NOR as in NORmal, FOKE as in FO'C'sle (forecastle) - rhymes with coke, VER as in virgin, GIN as in the alcoholic spirit, E as in easy and A as in able. But remember, I am an Australian. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From beyondsun@mindspring.com Subject BUNKER HILL & FRANKLIN Steve, What you are saying - that the Navy invested its SCB-27 (and ultimately SCB-125) refits on carriers in worse material condition than Bunker Hill and Franklin (which never got either) - would defy all logic. If true, one wonders whether the decision was based more on considerations of morale; given that the later crews would know the traumatic histories of these two... Cheers, Matty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume