Subject: SMML VOL 2845 Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 13:39:44 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Norfolk, VA 2 Re proper pronunciation 3 Re Early Destroyer Colors 4 Marsilly versus four wheel carriages 5 The Bunker Hill and Franklin 6 Shipping built model 7 Pronouciation of Norfolk 8 Re BUNKER HILL & FRANKLIN 9 Re between the devil and the deep blue sea 10 Re Early Destroyer Colors 11 Location of molds from Burt Industries - Altamonte Springs, FL 12 Power stays on at WWII carrier 13 Hobby Shops 14 Re Ground Tackle 15 Re Norfolk, Virginia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 TOM'S MODELWORKS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From SSachsen@actransit.org Subject Re Norfolk, VA when I was there last year I heard it pronounced a couple ways. but whichever the choice, the 'L' is silent Nawf'k, Norf'k. the accent on the first, rather than the second sylab, thus reducing the 'blue' aspect of the name. s ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From 03136040@brookes.ac.uk Subject Re proper pronunciation Assuming the pronunciation hasn't changed across the pond, it'll be the same as the Norfolk in England which would be- Nor-*uck and NOT Nor-foke -Replace the '*' with an 'f' and there's your answer Sorry to be a bit rough on this but can't think of a better way to explain Rich ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "William H. Shuey" Subject Re Early Destroyer Colors >> I think the colors that were given are reversed. It should be bottle green for the early years and gray for WWI. Alden's "American steel Navy" has a section on the tests that the Navy conducted around the turn of the century to determine the optimal color for torpedo boats during night attacks. They found bottle green to be best. << Apparently the mark of a good idea is that it's time comes around again. I have been told that many U.S. PT boats in the Solomons and New Guinea in 1942 went to green camouflage or green and gray camouflage. I believe one squadron was even nicknamed "The Green Dragons". Bill Shuey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From THEGAVEL@aol.com Subject Marsilly versus four wheel carriages I have run into a stumbling block modeling some Civil War steam ships. While I have a lot of references, none seem to say what type carriage was used on spar deck Dalhgren cannon onboard the following classes Wabash, Niagara, Mississippi, Susquehanna, Miami, Conemaugh, and British ships like the Mersey. Any ideas? John Gavel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From BGMarshall@aol.com Subject The Bunker Hill and Franklin Gentlemen I have been following the very interesting string concerning the merits of worthiness to convert the Bunker Hill and Franklin into the more advanced designs. My father was an EM3/c on the Bunker Hill and part of the draft of sailors shipped on to replace those killed and wounded after the Bunker Hill got out of Puget Sound NSY from her repairs in September, 1945. One of Dad's tasks (other than operating the movie projector) was tracing circuits using the WW2 version of a multi-meter. At times, the circuits through the damaged portions of the ship could not be easily traced because the repairs to the ship did not follow the circuit diagrams. As I recall, the two kamikazes that successfully attacked the Bunker Hill hit at the base of the island and around the deck edge elevator on the port side. Bombs carried by the aircraft continued on to wreck havoc in the compartments below the hanger deck. Based on what Dad told me about the trouble tracing circuits, I would guess that the yard was tasked with getting the Bunker Hill (and the Franklin?) to sea as quickly as possible to take part in the invasion of Japan. The atomic bombs were dropped before Dad got aboard, so his first cruise was south to San Diego to fly the air group off and then two Operation Magic Carpet cruises to the Pacific and back. Coming back to the subject, the Bunker Hill and, probably, the Franklin were repaired enough to continue fighting the war. Most likely, speed of repair was more important than some of the details. Later, when the Navy was selecting the carriers for angle deck conversion, those carriers selected lacked the "field modifications" made to the Bunker Hill and Franklin and thus the process of conversion based on the carrier's as-built drawings was easier to manage. We need to remember that the angle deck conversion was "high tech" for the time and uncharted territory until one or two carriers had been converted. I am sure if the Bunker Hill and Franklin were needed because the war was still going on, the Navy would have made the conversions to have two more decks in theater. The Bunker Hill actually spent a good deal of her life in San Diego harbor as a floating electronics test bed before she was scrapped in the 1970s or so. Chip Marshall ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From Kdg345@aol.com Subject Shipping built model Smmls Can anyone advise me what is the best way, if any, to ship my scratch built, five foot long, model of an AKA to my next ship reunion which is on the East coast and I live on the West coast. Ken Groom ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From Joel Labow Subject Pronouciation of Norfolk The traditional USN pronouciation is "Norfork." Older Navymen who remember back to the 50's and 60's remember it fondly as "Sh&t City - Sailors and Dogs Keep off the Grass!" Joel Labow Old Navyman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "Steven P. Allen" Subject Re BUNKER HILL & FRANKLIN >> What you are saying - that the Navy invested its SCB-27 (and ultimately SCB-125) refits on carriers in worse material condition than Bunker Hill and Franklin (which never got either) - would defy all logic. If true, one wonders whether the decision was based more on considerations of morale; given that the later crews would know the traumatic histories of these two... << Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. Both Franklyn and Bunker Hill were kept in prome condition as long as there was the possibility they might be used. Funding problems caused by Vietnam did them in, as the Essex conversions became financially impossible, especially given the money spent on the newer super carriers. Start with Friedman for references. Steve Allen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "tkremer@pacbell.net" Subject Re between the devil and the deep blue sea >> Now, as for discussing the meanings of some less archaic sayings that have more specific meanings, shall we take the classic phrase "Caught between the Devil and the deep blue sea!" -) Yes, it means a person is screwed, but do people on the List know why? << The "devil" is the seam between the outer edge of the planking and the covering board... if you were caught between that and the sea you were probably on your way overboard! Tom K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From "GRAHAM BOAK" Subject Re Early Destroyer Colors Actually, the RAF changed to a light grey on their nightfighters before the Germans did. Bomber Command retained the black undersides because they had the additional worries of the searchlights, but changed to a satin-finish colour Smooth Night rather than their previous matt Night or very matt Special Night (RDM 2).. Incidentally, that is why the USAAF adopted black for their nightfighters, despite (presumably) being well aware of the silhouette effect of black. Trials showed that a gloss black aircraft could fly through searchlights without being seen. Yes, honestly, that is what their trials showed. Personally, I'd have re-run the trials. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject Location of molds from Burt Industries - Altamonte Springs, FL This company no longer exists but they offered both HO and N scale ships, including LST, LCT, LSU plus modern container, bulk carrier, and refrigerator5 ship kits. Does anyone know if these molds are still in existence and is there a new company that is selling the kits? Thank you for any information. Regards, John Kutina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From Steve Singlar Subject Power stays on at WWII carrier http//tinyurl.com/9ytyw Tuesday, May 10, 2005 (05-10) 1728 PDT SFGate.com Alameda, Calif. (AP) -- The lights will stay on at the historic World War II-era aircraft carrier USS Hornet.Contributions received over the weekend let museum managers pay $6,000 in past bills to the city-owned utility in Alameda that provides the ship with electricity."The lights will stay on, and we will stay in business," said Scott Armanini, chief executive of the nonprofit Friends of the Hornet, which runs the museum at the former Alameda Naval Air Station, where the Hornet has docked for the past 10 years.The 41,000-ton carrier is considered a floating piece of history. The carrier saw extensive combat in World War II and recovered astronauts and space capsules from Apollo missions.But the ship's future is still in doubt.More than $500,000 in back rent ” nearly five years' worth ” is owed to the Alameda Reuse and Redevelopment Authority ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From Skyking918@aol.com Subject Hobby Shops Can someone tell me where the good hobby shops are in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area? Michael McMurtrey Enid, OK (WDG) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From Nick Heinbaugh Subject Re Ground Tackle Frankly, I agree with you in principle. I learned early in Surface Warfare Officer's School about the correct pronounciation of the word "tackle" (although I only learned it in connection with the term "ground tackle". Presumably if the Navy used the term ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From SANDYMOOR@aol.com Subject Re Norfolk, Virginia Hi Y'all (US Southern speak there), I've enjoyed reading the comments on the pronunciation of the name of my hometown. True Norfolkians have a way of speaking that is unique in the Southern States of America. The city has a rich maritime heritage going back to the birth of our country. Norfolk has always had people from all areas moving to and through it. Thus Norfolkians have developed a speech that is somewhat Southern with at times a tinge of, God forgive me for saying this, Northern. We say 'Norfolk' rather quickly and in two parts, "Naw-f**k". Really. No disrespect here, no hidden vulgar meaning. When said quickly, it doesn't sound like you're trying to slip a 'nasty' by someone. The gentleman from Australia was pretty close to right about 'Virginia'. We say 'Ver-gin-nee-ah'. Well, more or less like that depending on how many Mint Julips you've had! Best regards y'all, Sandy M ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Tom Harrison" Subject TOM'S MODELWORKS Some of you may already know we are going to be moving and because of this move we will be closing down the web site on June 10th. We are planning to reopen August 1st. we will continue to respond to (snail) mail orders. we apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume