Subject: SMML VOL 2904 Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:27:06 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Revell Hawaiian Pilot 2 Re North Carolina Questions 3 eBay item "RMS Carpathia" 4 Inclining ships 5 Re Skytrex ship painting 6 Re Maiale Kit 7 WW I German Auxiliary Cruisers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Rod" Subject Revell Hawaiian Pilot I just got the reissue Hawaiian Pilot C-3 freighter. I notice there are guns molded in one of the sprues. Did this kit have commonality with the Burleigh/Randall/Montrose attack transport kit? Is it the same kit (less the landing craft)? Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "rwsmithjr@rcn.com" Subject Re North Carolina Questions The short answer is that all previously published info on BB-55 North Carolina is the result of lazy and incomplete research, repetition of myth and incorrect research and repetition of deliberate wartime disinformation. How do I know all this? simple, I did complete photo and text records research on her for a publisher this spring at NARA in College Park, MD and NHC in Washington, DC. I also some info from a fellow researcher out in Seattle from the NARA branch out there. Wait for the new book. >> the Leeward Publications/ Ship's Data No 1 profile. This raises some questions. << I don't have it so I can't comment on the exact photos you quote....I'm also not going to try and find a copy since I have all primary source photos and text. If you have 80-G, 19-N or 181-NCB/NCC photo numbers I can refer to the primary sources. >> On Page 8 are two pictures that call for some answers. The first item is more of an observation than a question. The sailors are all in whites! They are working on the ship wearing what we called white bravo when I was in the Navy. They are white long sleeved white jumpers (no neckerchief) long white pants and dixie cup hats. I can't imagine working in these. You can't put them on without getting them dirty and wrinkled, let alone working in them. The picture is probably 1941. I wonder when they were allowed to wear dungarees? << Those are from the period between August 20 and 29 during her military trials. About 1/3 of the crew is in dungarees and chambray shirts in most of the photos. But it is odd since the officers are in khakis or dress blues. >> The first real question concerns the spare anchor "porch" on the port side near the bow. The North Carolinas had them and the South Dakotas had them. What was their function? They have never been commented on in any reference I have seen. They disappeared early in the ships career, but when? I can find references on when each 20mm gun was installed, but these porchs disappeared without comment. What was their function? Were they just to store a third anchor? << Until she mounted her light AA in November, 1941 she had the third anchor. Starting early November she got her 20's and deck .50's, prior to that she only had all her 1.1's and superstructure .50's for light AA. The anchor washboard was plated over and a 20mm tub placed over it at this time. She keeps the washboard and weird tub until her 1944 refit at Puget where she also paints into her second Ms32 scheme. >> The next question concerns the paint scheme. Both pictures are on the page titled shakedown. << Again, August 20-28, 1941 during military trials, not her "shakedown"...that's right out of her decklog. >> There are no 20mm guns in sight so these pictures were taken before December 1941 since there were 40 of them installed then. << The 20's were installed in November. >> This would put her in measure 2. << Experimental Measure 12, not Measure 2. >> This is an ocean gray hull, haze gray superstructure and light gray above the funnel top. Dark hull and we still don't know if it was 5-D or 5-D/sapphire mix. There is only one color photo that has the hull side well lit. The upperworks are all 5-O if she's at sea in the photos, if she's still at dock it could be a mix of the #5 Standard Navy Grey and 5-O while they repaint her, she paints top to bottom, inside to outside. The tower top and pole mast are 5-L. Wood decks are natural teak, steel decks #20 deck grey (study photos, at times her anchor chain scuff plates are #5 SNG). >> The picture shows the top of the director tower is very light, but so are the main turret fronts. This can't be because of shadows. The picture is taken from the bow and clearly shows that the superstructure between the turrets and the top of the director tower is darker. The lower picture seams to show that the turrets have a lighter face than the superstructure but there is more contrast in the picture. << Again, if she's at sea it's all 5-O. Have you ever used a true oil based enamel? They darken over several days as they cure and it is most obvious with midtones. She was repainted less than a week before going on her military trials, the freshest paint appears lighter because it is still curing. >> The picture also shows the the outboard rifles on the main turrets have white (tan?) blast bags and the center rifles have black blast bags. << This is definately her military trials as they did that when they repainted her into Ms12. The outer bags are a very light grey that is almost white with a touch of tan. >> The bottom picture seams to show that the 5" turrets are a lighter color than the superstructure, but the turrets are in the sun and the superstructure is in shadow. But when looking at the top picture, the first 5" mount on the port side is two toned. The face has the inboard third in a very dark color and the outboard two thirds is very light. The picture looks like it is black and white. << You'd have to give me the 80-G or 19-N photo number, guaranteed I have it at very hi-res. See previous comments for what you're seeing. >> None of these things conforms to published norms. If I built the ship with these abnormalities and entered it in a contest, would it be accepted? << Published norms (snort, giggle, guffaw).....ask some poeple and they'll tell you based on some oscure memo in the British Department of Naval Intelligence she didn't mount her main director and CXAM radar until December due to "severe vibration problems"...problem is her decklog entry for 1820 hours, May 26, 1941 states the mechanical installation of her main battery director was completed. Of course it would have been hard for her undergo gun trials the week of August 20-28 without said director and her decklog duly records the initial firings of each main battery turret. They'll also tell you photos don't show the CXAM and sometimes don't show the director prior to December....guess what, those are censored photos and the Navy censored prints...lazy research....an author found the photos for the time frame he wanted in the low numbered boxes and didn't bother to keep looking...later reprints from the same negatives clearly show the CXAM and director in August. There are also photos of them hooking up the cables to the CXAM dated August as part of the yard's work record. The "severe vibration problem" is noted in her decklog and work records as a moderate longitudinal vibration, work records show work on the shafts and bearings and nothing else. There are claims she was constantly swapping props the summer and fall of 1941....funny, there are no records of this. Photos show her with moderate pitch round tipped four blades outboard and high pitch square tipped three blades inboard August, 1941. text records show she does swap the inboard three blade props for 5 blade props.....in late 1944. I love the "Showboat" myth as well.....since she was "constantly in and out of New York Harbor the summer of 1941 attempting to fix a severe vibration problem and swapping props".....she leaves NYH May 19 for builder's trials and reberths May 21, she leaves again May 27 for more builder's trials and reberths May 28 where she stayed moored until August 1 when she moves to drydock #4, August 19 she returns to her previous berth and then leaves NYH August 22, September 1 she anchors in Gravesend Bay to take on ammo and fuel then departs September 3 and does not return to New York until November....somehow that does not fit with "constantly in and out of New York Harbor" the summer of 1941..... Her cruise book from 1946 and a couple of NY Times articles mention her nickname was The Showboat because she was built in plain view of the public and touted in the papers as "America's Newest 35,000 Ton Fast Battleship". >> Now for the big question. I plan on building the ship in the measure 32 scheme that the kit shows and is the subject of the centerfold of the profile. The only problem is that the kit shows blue decks and the profile shows natural wood decks. I would assume that the decks were blue, but I would appreciate more input on this. << Would that be with the dark panel on the starboard bow or the all grey panel? If the former you need to add the anchor washboard and weird 20mm tub to port. The colors would be 5-L, 5-O, dull black on the hull and her deck was 20-B, 5-O and black.....yes she had a deck pattern and it had black sections. The later Ms32 does not need the anchor washboard and weird 20mm tub (Trumpeter kit OOB), hull should be 5-L, 5-O and dull black....possible deck pattern but photos aren't 100% clear on this....otherwise 20-B decks would be safe. Seriously a book is coming with all new research and the research is as complete as possible. For now I'd suggest a visit to www.shipcamouflage.com and the Color Controversy forum. Ron Smith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From paulship57@hotmail.com Subject eBay item "RMS Carpathia" Another odd item on ebay. "RMS Carpathia" - Model -One-Of-A-Kind - Big 22" - WOW! 1st Ship At The Scene Of The TITANIC Sinking.... Item number 6551530320 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Dave Ward" Subject Inclining ships Inclining ships is not merely a matter of checking the design, It's also a check on the weights used in construction of the ship. HMS Captain famously was overweight by some 700 tons, and in consequence her stability was so much affected that she capsized, with major loss of life ( including her designer, Coles ) when hit by an unexpected squall. A less damaging, but profoundly embarrasing mistake was the Royal Yacht 'Victoria & Albert' So many additions were made to her accommodation (against the wishes of her designer ) that she capsized when the drydock was flooded!! Dave Ward - ex-marine engineer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From chris Tilley Subject Re Skytrex ship painting Do Skytrex still use standard white metal, the tin-lead alloy beloved of (ha!) of wargamers everywhere or have they switched to pewter derivatives? The 'black stuff' on white metal models is probably just oxidant, or dirt, or mould release agent residue. It's always a good idea to wash white metal, before and/or after construction, to degrease the surface. This will give you better adhesion both with glues and paints. As to glues, any cyanoacrylate should suffice, or two-part epoxy glues (fast setting is usually better in case of 'slippage' under the weight of the pieces) as long as you carefully remove the excess of the latter. As to paints, an undercoat is a good idea. Standard enamel sprays work well, or an all over brush coat with enamel or one of the wargaming undercoats (such as made in acrylics by Miniature Paints). Games Workshop do a very good and very matt white and black undercoat sprays. Just remember, black undercoats are good for dull effects and dark shades in gaps, white undercoats make the finished effect brighter. Once you're built and undercoated, paint as you like with whatever medium you wish. Hope this easy guide is of use Chris Tilley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Nuno Rubim" Subject Re Maiale Kit Thanks to those who answered my question about the Maiale Kit. Nuno Rubim Portugal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Nuno Rubim" Subject WW I German Auxiliary Cruisers I think that there are not kits concerning the WW I German Sea Raiders, with the probable exception of the Emden and the Seeadler. Am I right? As to Paper or Card Models. Are there any ? And plans / drawings of such ships as the Möwe and the Wolf ? Thanks Nuno Rubim Portugal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume