Subject: SMML VOL 2922 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:40:00 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re John Piper 1/96 Flower Class Corvette 2 Oktabriskaya Revolutsia 3 Re Lex Decks 4 U.S.Navy LST 5 Re Lexington in Blue? 6 Lexington in Blue? 7 Combrig Dreadnought 8 Re Post War Merchant Ships book 9 RN Type 43 DDG 10 Re Shackleton's ship "Endurance" plans wanted 11 Update Endurance plans 12 1/72 and 1/35 scale Accurate Armor landing craft 13 Accurate Armor's 1/76 and 1/35 Landing craft 14 Italian heavy cruiser Pola 15 Need Help! Mk32 Mod.1 Range Finder.. 16 Carzol Plastics Corp of Montreal PQ Canada? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1 Paper model meeting -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 Titanic 2 Lexington in Blue? 3 F/S Naval Books 4 John Haynes News ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Les Pickstock" Subject Re John Piper 1/96 Flower Class Corvette Robin Personally I think that a unmade John Piper kit is priceless but we have to face the fact that it is a item of interest to a finite number of modellers. However the proliferation of auction sites means you have global market and there are modellers out there, some of whom have money to spare (I do not include myself). If you want a idea for insurance look at how much it would cost for a replacement to be found or made. If you need a value for an auction site then your guess would be as good as anyone elses. Kits are usually worth what people are prepared to pay and you can't predict that. I've recently sold a Matchbox car for over 30 GBP the same car sold the following week for 10 GBP, theres no ryme or reason to it. The fact remains, however, that unless someone has a big stash of these kits somewhere then your kit is a pretty rare item. For auction purposes, if I set a reserve, I figure out what the very least I'd accept for it would be and use that figure as the reserve then pitch the starting price at about1/2 that. HTH ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Jim Subject Oktabriskaya Revolutsia Hey fellow smml'rs! In the UK it is a public Holiday weekend ergo = 3 days of modelling bliss ....( marred(!!) only by glorious sunshine which necessitated a visit to the beach!!) So with all this time on my hands.... I have run into a couple of stumbling blocks... Need assistance on two or three or more(!) issues with my 1/700 model of Oktabriskaya Revolutsia which I am building ( based on the kit by HP models) to be ideally as in late 1930's fit--ie huge cranes, bendy funnel , clipper bow and shipping a float plane etc etc The float plane carried by Okt Rev, ( can be seen in a very useful pic in Houghs Book DREADNOUGHT, credited as US Navy Pic) ---can anyone confirm that it was a KR-1...? I have searched the US Navy Historical site using their search engine (usually an excellent source of good photos) but none of my various spelling versions of Okt Rev are showing a result including the photo mentioned above!--anyone know where (and if) they have photos of the Okt rev--of similar calibre (haha!) to the afore-mentioned picture|) The non-planked decks-- would they be lino, ( some probably) or steel? which decks etc ( any colour photos existing>? large museum models of that period/fit?) Below bridge windows and around most platforms around whole ship canvas dodgers were applied to open railings--in some photos they appear to be hull/superstructure colour--in others they appear to be white--what was it the late thirties? cannot hithertoo establish it exactly! (limited Cyrillic knowledge!) I am armed with several Russian(language) class monographs, plans and drawings-- as well as the dual language Sevastopol class monograph--none of which has 'till now elicited answers to the above queries! I have commissioned a custom PE fret for the massive cranes and other non-standard detail that was clunky or plain wrong in the kit--I have re-decked the kit ( it had NO (!!) deck planking; neither fore and aft or athwart ships) so after all this work (and expense!) I really HAVE to get it right with the above details!! Looking forward to being rescued from my quandaries and un-certainties by some of you knowledgeable fellows.!! I have stopped work on Okt Rev for now -- and started two Austro-Hungarian ships--I have 1100 plans and books for those--so far all good! Thanks JIM BAUMANN ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "John Snyder" Subject Re Lex Decks Hi Allan, Flight deck was stained Norfolk 250-N (Colourcoats US 27), and steel decks were painted Deck Blue 20-B (Colourcoats US 10). Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Fairwind515@wmconnect.com Subject U.S.Navy LST Hellow from Florida - land of hurricans! Does ANYONE in this wide world make model kits of above subject??? I don't mean a one foot long job, I'd like to fine one about 2 1/2 feet long with good detail. I was on one during the Normand invasion. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From AAA Hobby Supply Subject Re Lexington in Blue? >> I know what the 9/41 and 6/42 US camouflage rules said ("We dunno yet" first, stain like deck blue second), which would imply natural. But what was it really? << Photo # 80-G-416362 taken inOctober 1941 shows the Lexington in what some are claiming is an experimental blue paint scheme. Regardless of the vertical colors, the deck is no longer mahogany with white stripes. It has been painted or stained a much darker color and is indeed nearly as dark as the rest of the ship and the surrounding ocean. Also, the paint job is very varied across the entire ship, with the island being very dark (freshly painted) and the stack being lighter, and the hull even lighter. This fading was a trademark of 5D, but there is not any published written evidence of what color was used or the blue controversy would be ended. See the photo at http//www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g410000/g416362.jpg ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Michael Smith" Subject Lexington in Blue? The deck was stained blue - according to Stern's book the Lexington couldn't get the darker blue deck stain the Enterprise had experimented with in the fall of 1941, so she simply used "Mare Island" deck blue stain. Offhand, I'm not certain how that compares to the light blue "Norfolk" stain, but I don't worry about it for the following reason. Personally, I use FS 36118 (Testor's Gunship Gray) for 1/700 stained carrier decks in 1942. I had been using Humbrol Gris Bleu Fonce (Dark Blue Gray) for Deck Blue surfaces, and ran across a reference that it was actually FS 36118, and it does appear to be awfully close, so I just started using Gunship Gray for all horizontal surfaces. It's not true Deck Blue, and probably isn't the correct flight deck stain either, but it approximates exactly every color I've ever seen of a 1942 carrier deck and Deck Blue surfaces, especially some overhead shots of the Wasp (CV-7) and some of the movie film of the Hornet (CV-8) at Midway. (If I were modelede a ship at pierside actually being painted up I'd worry about it, but by the time they got to the war zone, I'm comfortable FS 36118 is pretty good). It's a little faded and weathered, and - specially for a heavily used wood surface - is what I think a carrier deck would have weathered to initially. It may also accurately represent scale effect of the real thing, but I couldn't swear to that. I just know it looks exactly like the Wasp photos I was working off of. That's especially in light of the fact that the blue pigments they used faded very quickly, so you'd lose the darkness real quick and end up with a pretty bland gray. Incidentally, there are 1943 photos of the new Yorktown that show a deck that's faded almost all the way to bare wood, which is what I suspect happened to a new deck in the tropics with only one application of Norfolk stain, prior to being restained. (I suspect the photos were taken during her passage towards Pearl, and she restained before entering the war zone). This constrasts strongly with the almost glossy light blue gray her deck showed at her commissioning ceremony at Norfolk several months before. The real thing looks like a model - there's almost no weathering at all, but the Navy Blue has already faded to a medium blue shade. But with the original carriers, which had the prewar mahogany stain underneath, I think they would have stayed darker and grungier - it would have taken a long while to fade all the way to wood. (Although Hornet may be an exception - I don't think she every had mahogany, and probably started with some type of deck blue stain, so she logically might have gotten lighter than the other prewar carriers. She's dark in the photos of the Doolittle raid, but then again, the deck was wet, and thus would be substantially darker) Just my two cents. But my May 1942 Lexington (circa 1989) is FS 35042 vertical surfaces and FS 36118 horizontal, and when I get the new 1/700 Trumpeter I'm still planning on using those colors. Well, actually maybe FS 35045 for the hull - there's a good argument that what we thought was Ms 11 Sea Blue was actually Ms 21 Navy Blue, so I might start a touch darker and maybe weather down a bit. For modelers it's almost a moot point, since the Lexington had just been repainted into the overall dark blue two months before (March 1942) and the paints were the same thing - just a slightly darker mix for Navy Blue. But whatever it was, after two months of fading, the color would have lightened somewhat, and my guess is that there was little difference between two month old Ms 11 and Ms 21 - the precise shade can never be more than speculation, and anything darker than about FS 36176 I can't quarrel with (although I do prefer it a fair amount darker, so the planes show by by comparison). But I'd be interested in what others think - are there better combinations for a May 1942 Lexington? Michael Smith Marshall, Texas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Mason, Jeff" Subject Combrig Dreadnought Hi To all that have that have tackled Combrig’s 1/700 HMS Dreadnought. Excellent kit apart from…… Is it me or is there a very important omission from the Photo Etch set. This being the two distinctive supports that fit between the Conning tower & the Bridge. I checked the Combrig web site & they are clearly shown on the sets illustrated in the advert. But these are not the sets included in the kit. Was there a rehash of the layout & these were omitted before production or is this just a slight hic up on Combrig’s part. Any one else found this & how did you get around it? This Ship is being modelled in 1918 fit, good to find two versions of the bridge & Compass platform (which is where some of the major changes occurred) included so if it goes pear shaped I can revert to 1906 fit. Very nice of White Ensign Models to provide spare splinter mattresses in their Queen Elizabeth kit. Cheers Jeff Mason ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From jeff simpson Subject Re Post War Merchant Ships book Merchant Ships of World War II - a post war album, by Victor Young, 1996 Shipping Books Press PO Box 30, Market Drayton, Shropshire TF9 3ZZ England. 68 colour photo pages with a short text on each ship, including basic dimensions. The book is headed "Shipping Album 1" which implies that either Victor Young, or Shipping Books intended to produce a series, it would be interesting to know if there were any subsequent volumes. Shipping Books are a mail-order bookseller so I would suggest them as first contact, they do not have a webpage. Good Luck Jeff Simpson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "Pelle Bergschöld" Subject RN Type 43 DDG Hello all. I've tried for some time to find some kind of drawing or sketch showing general layout for the aborted Royal Navy Type 43 AAW destroyer project. All I have found is a short verbal descripton that really doesn't help very much at all. Have anyone seen a drawing, and would it be possible to scan and send me a copy? Best regards Pelle SWE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From "Stephen Sobieralski" Subject Re Shackleton's ship "Endurance" plans wanted Coincidently, one of our members at the Tampa Bay Ship Model Society showed up at our meeting last Tuesday with a set of Endurance plans. (They were copies of the builders plans of the Polaris actually, everything in Norwegan.) He had obtained them from the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich,England. Steve Sobieralski ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From "thor" Subject Update Endurance plans Many thanks to all the SMMLies who gave me info and suggested help. I am now awaiting a set of original plans for the 'Polaris' from a whaling museum in Norway. The National Geographic were also able to provide a list of books with pencil drawings of the Endurance. Thanks again all, Thor Auckland New Zealand ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From "Harold Stockton" Subject 1/72 and 1/35 scale Accurate Armor landing craft According to Accurate Armor's website at http//www.accurate-armour.com/comingsoon.cfm?navlevel=2&CFID=4263496&CFTOKEN=37005685 , they are planning the release of two new 1/72 scale landing craft. NEW 1/76th Scale NAVAL complete Kits S17 1/76th BRITISH Landing Craft Flak Mk-4 LCF(4) S18 1/76th US Landing Craft Tank Mk-5 LCT(5) NEW 1/35th Scale NAVAL complete Kits S10 1/35th BRITISH 'X-CRAFT' MINI SUB (Waterline) S11 1/35th Japanese Type-A MINI SUB (Full Hull) A beautiful conversion of the Heller 1/400 scale kit of their LCT 4 to a British LCF Mk4 (Landing Craft Flak), or a LCF(4), can be seen at http//hsgalleries.com/lct6lcf4ms_1.htm . More detailed information about these craft can be found at http//ftp.ggi-project.org/hyperwar//USN/ships/ships-lc.html#lcf . For the Landing Craft Tank Mk-5 LCT(5), you might try the last link or for plans of these craft at http//members.tripod.com/~ww2lct/mk5/mk5main.html and at http//ww2lct.org/mk5/mk5main.htm . During the Normandy Invasion at Neptune Beach, minefields were Force U's greatest enemy. As D-day advanced, it became obvious that an unsuspected mine field located in the Cardonet Shoals lay right across the boat lanes. It claimed the PC 1261 in the early morning. During the next few hours it sank LCT's 362, 597, and 777, and LCF 31. Being a part of Convoy U-2A(1), there were one LCI(L), four LCF, four LCT(R), four LCG, eight LCT(A), three ML, and sixteen LCP(L), that sailed from Salcombe, England, at 1655 on 5 June at five Kts.; arriving at Neptune Beach at 0230 on 6 June. Accurate Armor should be congratulated for attempting such an ambitious feat as the British LCF Mk4 (Landing Craft Flak), or LCF(4), as their specifications were Displacement 370 tons Length 187'3" (31.21 inches in 1/72 scale) Beam 38'8" Draft 3'6" forward, 7'6" aft (full load). One can see Tim Perry's excellent 1/200 scale scratchbuilt D-Day LCT Mk-4 at http//www.kipperboxes.co.uk/html/lct_mk_4.html Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From "Harold Stockton" Subject Accurate Armor's 1/76 and 1/35 Landing craft Accurate Armor's 1/76 and 1/35 Landing craft are now a reality, as their 1/35 scale kit is being offered for sale on Mission Model's website at http//www.missionmodels.com/pages/accurate_armour.htm . And if that didn't take your breath away, their #AA-D-12 1/35 scale LCT(4) is listed as being an amazing 62" long model, and will be the ultimate of your collection. Features excellent resin castings, white metal and Photo Etch parts. Also featured are all 20mm cannons, stowage, ballast tanks, wheel house plus much more. This model will accommodate 9 Shermans/Cromwells or 6 Churchills. Full rivet detail is featured and is replicated directly from the actual LCT blueprints. For only $1,100.00 (usd). If this seems high, try this same company's 1/76 scale kit #S-13 British LCT( 4) 29.25" long landing craft that is made in resin, White Metal and PE details, and with Decals for $400.00. But in retrospect, how much would a Revell 1/72 scale U-boat have been if it has been done in resin? On AA's site at http//www.accurate-armour.com/ShowProduct.cfm?CFID=4263496&CFTOKEN=37005685&manufacturer=0&category=13&subcategory=225&product=1425 , they say this about this model "This massive model by Dan Taylor is 29.25" (745mm) long and 6.25" (157mm) wide and consists of five main castings in resin and a huge quantity of other fittings in resin, metal, and etched brass. 20mm cannons, stowage and ALL fittings are included. The master model was designed using original British War-time shipyard drawings." The photos of LCT-749 in kit form are truly stunning. So, AA's proposed #S17 1/76th BRITISH Landing Craft Flak Mk-4 LCF(4) and their #S18 1/76th US Landing Craft Tank Mk-5 LCT(5) should be real beauties and cost similarly. On this same website, this company's 1/35 scale kit #S-14 20mm Naval Oerlikon Cannon Set is shown for sale. This is a complete 1/35th scale kit of the 20mm Oerlikon cannon on a typical Naval mounting. This mounting was fitted to a multitude of ships, smaller vessels, landing craft. The same mounting was also used in coastal concrete/brick positions and also mounted on trucks. And the detail shots of this kit at http//www.accurate-armour.com/ShowProduct.cfm?CFID=4263496&CFTOKEN=37005685&manufacturer=0&category=13&subcategory=226&product=1597 , are really beautiful. For those larger scale modelers out there, you might want to consider AA's 1/35 scale dockside accessories like their D-** series resin sets. This company's D12 Quayside Deck/Stair set is a set of three Quayside modules in 1/35th scale which can be used alone, or as part of a larger model. This set comprises two plain 'deck' modules, and one 'stairway' module. All three units have crane rail lines, pavements, drain covers railings and mooring fittings. The stairway module also has a lifebelt holder. The modules are moulded in lightweight resin, with the other fittings in resin and metal. Total size is 723mm(29")long by 190mm(7.5") deep by 102mm(4") high. Other kits in this range are their D13 Quayside Defence Position (occupied Europe), D14 Complete European Quayside (occupied Europe, and as long as a complete same scale U-boat), D15 Mooring and Gangway set, D34 1/35th Scale RN "HARD" (consisted of pre-cast concrete blocks laid into beaches to form a sloping ramp for the loading and unloading of Tank Landing Craft and for DD Tanks and other amphibious vehicles to drive in and out of the water.), and their D35 1/76th Scale RN "HARD". And finally, there is their S16 Naval Accessory Set #1. This 1/35th scale resin accessory set contains 2x 'Carley' floats & oars, 2x 'Flot-A-Nets', 4x Lifebelts and an Anchor. Generally these are British WW-2 items, but are found and re-used World-wide. Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From "Marvin Reichman" Subject Italian heavy cruiser Pola I am about to start building the 1/350 model of this ship which is put out by a subsidiary of Trumpeter. I am confused as the plans indicate that the hull botom should be green but Warship Pictorial shows it as hull red. Can anyone clarify his for me? Thanks for your help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From Fritz Koopman Subject Need Help! Mk32 Mod.1 Range Finder.. Hi guys. I'm looking for any close up photos, or dimensioned diagrams for the Mk32 Mod.1 Range Finder. These were "stable verticals" that were mounted on either side of the Omaha Cruisers' sky lookout control platforms(just above bridge level) after '42. Also mounted on several battleships prewar often used in conjunction with the 3 inchers. Most photos' on Navsource have to much of the range finder obscured by railings Anything that would give me a better idea on the overall shape and structure would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance. Fritz K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From "Bill Daisley" Subject Carzol Plastics Corp of Montreal PQ Canada? Hi folks, I've been ashore for a bit, moving from Ontario to New Brunswick... but I've cast my nets at the latgets flea market in Canada (Sussex NB) to find a "Japanese Fishing Boat" from CP, kit # 1106, no date, no patent, no scale.... and I have never heard of this company nor the ship it has modeled... (appears to be a smallish tuna boat referred to as a clipper type?)... has anyone come across the company? cheers Bill Daisley ICI Paints - Fredericton NB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "D.A. den Bakker" Subject Paper model meeting Dear paper model enthousiast, For those few of you within easy reach of our country the annual Dutch paper modellers' meeting is at Amerongen Castle, Saturday 10th September. There will also be lots of paper models of planes for sale at the Collectors' Fair, Aviodrome, Lelystad Airfield on Saturday 3rd September. Please visit my website again - I have added several new models of our own. The new trains in HO scale are proving a great success, especially with railway modellers. There is also a new North Sea fishing vessel Go-38, and several new Scaldis and JSC models. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "D.A. den Bakker" Subject Titanic Some of your readers may be interested to know that there is now a newly designed, highly detailed paper model of the Titanic, 1400, with English instructions. Price only 20 EUR +p&p. I would like to emphasize again that paper modelling has long outgrown the level of a children's pastime! For more information go to my site www.zeistbouwplaten.nl - most of the essential information of the site is in English. Diderick den Bakker, Holland ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From SteveWiper@aol.com Subject Lexington in Blue? Take a look in Warship Modeler 3-2005 magazine. Towards the back of every issue I run a small section on camouflage. In #3 there are a few color images I pulled from a color motion picture film from October 1941. In these, unfortunately we do not get a full view of the ship, but you can see that she was painted blue (Sea Blue 5-S) at that time. The last few frames of that film show her flight deck painted/stained a dark blue. These are not printed in the magazine. The deck markings are Ocean Gray 5-O ??? That is how they appear in the film. This magazine is available thru most hobby dealers, especially those mail order dealers who specialize in warships! Thank you, Steve Wiper www.classicwarships.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Derek Frost Subject F/S Naval Books BATTLESHIP ‘VIRIBUS UNITAS’. 2001. VG review of the WW1 Austrian Battleship. Prof. Ill. b/w photos, b/w scale drawings. Ill. include close-up details. 2 pages centerfold w/large scale plans for the ship in 1912. Rear cover has top & side color profiles. Sc. 32 pp. Vg. Russian text. $12.00US. RUSSIAN 'IMPERATRITAS MARIA V' CLASS BATTLESHIPS. 2003. Ill. with contemporary b/w photos & scale drawings. Includes loose-leaf fold out sheet of b/w scale drawings with side and top views plus hull lines. Sc. 48 pp. Russian text w/English captions. NEW. $14.00US. Postage extra. Can take Paypal. Many thanks. Derek Frost ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Graeme Martin Subject John Haynes News I will,[ in a month or two] be marketing a 1/24 comprehensive semi-kit of the 80ft. Elco PT Boat that is presently in the hands of my moulders. This model is produced to my usual standard and has all the armament including the Bofor, Oerlikon, 37mm Cannon, Mk.13 Aerial torpedoes, Depth-charges, mast with radome, etc, etc, All that is needed is timber for the deck an some minor upperworks plus some glue and wire and effort! This PT will very shortly be followed by a Higgins 78ft. to the same scale, that I have just finished mastering. Also the mk.50 rocket launcher carried on the bow is now being moulded. All the guns at this scale will be introduced into my catologue as seperate items. Cannot give a cost until my casters have completed their work but it will be costed to sell! Cheers John Haynes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume