Subject: SMML VOL 2924 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 23:21:24 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 WW2 USN Paints and FS references (was Lexington in Blue) 2 Re RN deck colours, again 3 Re Lexington in Blue? 4 Re LEXINGTON in BLUE! 5 Re RN deck colours, again 6 USS Fiske ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Michael Smith" Subject WW2 USN Paints and FS references (was Lexington in Blue) John, I stand corrected on FS references and you're correct - I am just using them as approximations of what I see in photos, not as accurate translations of the original colors. It's always a little bit of a surprise to compare the Colourcoat paints to the ones I used before I got them and see the difference! But that's a good reminder to go back and recheck my MS 11 (or is it 21, hmmm) before I do another Coral Sea Lexington. I am pretty attached to my FS 36118 for flight decks, though... Also thanks RW for the reference to the discussion on the subject, and I look forward to seeing the photo you refer to. I need to bone up on the current state of research on early 1942 US carrier colors before I tackle another one. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Frank Bowron" Subject Re RN deck colours, again Books are all very well, but old sailors are the only real experts on the colour of their ships. They spent much of their spare time chipping off rust and painting, and they used whatever they had to hand... My father served in HMS Forester from 1943 to 1945 and tells me that the fo'c'sle, main deck and the 'B' and 'X' gun decks were painted in a patchwork of whatever shade of 'Grey' happened to be in the paint locker, but that the decks of the bridge, bridge wings, flag deck, anti-aircraft gun platform between the funnels and the aft conning platform were all painted green. As for the rest of the ship, the upper works were kept ship-shape whenever the weather permitted (which wasn't often), because the crew could then reach all the inboard surfaces and the bosun was most particular! They couldn't always follow the official colour scheme exactly, as it all depended on what paint they had available. 'Sky-blue' (Dad's description) wasn't so easy to get hold of, but white was no problem so they ended up mostly white from the deck up. The insides of the gun shields were red. ( So the blood won't show - or so the sailors say...) The hull was never painted from 1943 to 1944 and was well rusted and oil stained. You can clearly see the overall result in the picture of Forester on u-boat.net. He also says they never had the pendant number H74 painted on the side at any time when he was in the ship - only on the stern. From photos of other ships at the time you can see that most small ships did have their pendant number painted on the side but there were many exceptions. The brass letters of the ship's name on the name boards mounted either side of the aft deck-house were however, always kept highly polished. In May 1944 Forester went into Halifax and was painted all over in what Dad calls 'light blue' ( B30 perhaps?), after which they left Mid-Ocean group C1 in Londonderry and went directly to Portsmouth and - though they didn't know it - the Normandy invasion. This is very interesting as I'd never heard anywhere else of small ships wearing an all over light blue scheme in the Channel from 1944 to 1945. I can see the reasoning behind painting over the Western Approaches camo for sailing close to shore, but was that perhaps the only colour the Halifax dockyard had to spare when they painted Forester? In any case, she was well pasted by shore batteries in July '44 while chasing off a group of 'R' boats and took many casualties, so she might as well have carried on wearing Western Approaches... Cheers, Frank ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From navydaze@aim.com Subject Re Lexington in Blue? Well I do know that the Lex on the box top of Trumpters 1/350 is not as dark as it should be and probably should be a lot bluer - but orginal art and print production are two different things of which I had no control over the later - I did however show the wood deck showing thru - sort of. I would be very interested in seeing the photo Michael Donegan Naval, Coast Guard & Aviation Artist http//www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From אלישע Subject Re LEXINGTON in BLUE! I must agree with John Snyder. FS numbers and WWII USN colors have no common reference point other than what you think you see. I prefer accuracy, but I am also a strong supporter of the right of the modeller to make his model look the way he wants. You like FS colors? Fine! paint your model that way. But please do so with the knowledge that it is not a perfect match. Also, be aware that changes in scale affect perceptions. Accurate colors on a small model in a lighted display cabinet won't really look the way the ship did in real life either. Your choice. As far as US CVs pre-war my entire set of 11200/1250 models have BLUE decks, because that is what they had when the US entered the war. I have mahogony only on my full deck LANGLEY. My Langley has some F3F biplanes on board, even though she never actually carried that type. That's because it was the only 11200 biplane I could find about 20 years ago, and I wanted biplanes on my model. My Choice. Aryeh Wetherhorn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "John Snyder" Subject Re RN deck colours, again Hi Peter, Here is what Raven had to say on the subject, in his series of articles for Plastic Ship Modeller (now available for reading at http//www.shipcamouflage.com) PETER SCOTT TYPE Unofficial in origin. Worn by destroyer BROKE during latter part of 1940. Later worn by a few Flower class corvettes during the first part of 194l. Used by small numbers of Coastal Forces craft during 1941 and 1942. Which actual ships used it is not known. Colors used light blue, light green, 507C, and white. Decks believed as peacetime practice - may have varied between ships. (NOTE Would NOT have been B30.) MODIFIED PETER SCOTT TYPE Semi-official in origin. Used from around mid 1941 to mid 1942. Worn by all types of vessels from corvette size up to and including destroyers. Colors used 507A, dark blue, white, and sometimes MS 1. Decks As peacetime practice. (Again, NOT B30.) WHITE TYPE Unofficial in origin, Used from late 1941 into 1943 by a small number of escort vessels operating in the North Atlantic during the winter months. Colors used White. Decks Areas laid with wood, asphalt, cemtex, or corticene, should be left in their natural colors. Steel deck areas were painted MS2. 1942 WESTERN APPROACHES TYPE Official in origin. Used by hundreds of ships from destroyer size down. Colors used Western Approaches Blue, Western Approaches Green, and white. Decks Areas laid with wood, asphalt, semtex, or corticene, should be left in their natural colors. Steel deck areas were painted MS2. 1943 WESTERN APPROACHES TYPE Official in origin. Used by hundreds of ships from destroyer size down. Colors used B55 and white. Decks Steel areas are painted B30. Areas of wood, semtex, corticene, and asphalt are left their natural color. AMERICAN WESTERN APPROACHES TYPE Originated from American Bureau of Ships. Used by most American built destroyer escorts upon delivery to the Royal Navy in the 1943/44 period. Colors used 5-L Light Gray, 5-S Sea Blue, and white. Decks 20-B Deck Blue (revised). So the only scheme appropriate to Hodges is the 1943 WA Type. There's lots more info on other aspects of these schemes in the Raven articles. I consider Hodges as quite dated, and always double-check him against Raven--and against the Admiralty sources in my own library. Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Lou" Subject USS Fiske All, I'm looking for a model of a Fletcher Class Destroyer that I can use to represent the USS Fiske (Fletcher Class) as she existed in the late 50's. I have searched for a model of the Fiske and I do not believe a specific model exists. Thus, I will need to convert another Fletcher Class Destroyer model, any assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Lou Nigro ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume