Subject: SMML VOL 2929 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:30:40 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re CW Ironclad colors 2 Re Royal Navy post war 21" Torpedoes 3 Re Royal Navy post war 21" Torpedoes 4 Color photo of Canadian Flower Class frigate during WWII 5 Photoetching 6 Re Royal Navy post war 21" Torpedoes 7 Re Color of Civil War Ironclads 8 RN Figures ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From SANDYMOOR@aol.com Subject Re CW Ironclad colors Hi Paul, This is a subject that can be discussed for hours. Bottom line, ironclad colors were not generally documented very well. Heres a rule on thumb that I go by, Union ironclads- Black. Its best to use an off black such as a 'scale black' or what Testors calls Cockpit Black. I'ld even lighten these a bit. Also remember they weathered quickly. So figure on a lot of streaking and rust effects. Confederate ironclads- A little more color here. Most are reported as having grey or brown casemates. Some exceptions are the CSS Virginia which was black and the Chicora and Palmetto State (of the Richmond class of ironclads) are said to have been painted a 'robins egg blue' . The decks of most were wood tan. Check out the Thoroughbred Models website- http//www.thoroughbredmodels.com/ You should get a little more info there and some links. Regards, Sandy M ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From taschoene@earthlink.net Subject Re Royal Navy post war 21" Torpedoes >> Does anyone know of, or know a reference for, the 21" torpedoes fitted to the original Type 12 RN Frigates, the Whitby and Rothesay class? These originally carried 12 tubes and they are listed in most references as anti submarine weapons. But the 21" torpedo of that era was an anti surface weapon, as fitted to most destroyers. If they were surface weapons it rather begs the classification of the type as "Anti Submarine" when they carried more tubes than the average destroyer of the time. << The Whitby and Rothesay frigates were meant to be armed with a newly developed ASW homing torpedo, codenamed Bidder and designated Mark 20E. Bidder was a huge disappointment in service and was probably never really operational. It was one of a few surface-launched heavyweight (21-inch) ASW torpedoes pursued right after WW2, before the lightweight (12.75-inch) weapons became standard. The only online reference I know of is this brief mention http//www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTBR_PostWWII.htm Regards, Tom Schoene ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From potter4@att.net Subject Re Royal Navy post war 21" Torpedoes Very interesting question. The tubes on several RN ASW type 12 frigates were for the Mk 20 ASW torpedo developed in project Bidder. Bidder was an electrically-driven passive homing torpedo that entered service in 1950. A total of 75 torpedoes were built, for both submarine use (Mk 20S) and for escort ships Mk 20E). An account is in Warship volume V (originally Warship issue 19) "From Fancy to Stingray British Torpedoes since 1945" by Antony Preston. Photographs of the specialized torpedo tubes are at http//www.dockmuseum.org.uk, in the pages about shipbuilding - frigates. It appears to me that the rotating tubes fired aft. The same type of tube appeared on at least one ASW type 15 frigate (4 per side); IIRC on at least one type 14 frigate (2 per side); and were in the design for the coastal ASW type 17 frigate. I've read that the RCN St. Laurent class design provided for tubes of the same sort but none were ever mounted that I know of. The Bidder torpedo was the reason for the retention of the original rotating tubes in the type 16 frigates and in the design for the type 18 frigate. Are you modeling a ship that mounted this sort of torpedo tube? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Brooks Rowlett Subject Color photo of Canadian Flower Class frigate during WWII So unusual to see that I felt it worth sending the URL http//www.navy.dnd.ca/leadmark/doc/part4_e.asp Brooks A. Rowlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "John Mills" Subject Photoetching I would like to try some photoetching for a 1/350 King George V from Tamiya. I would appreciate any recommendations. Which one? Should I do it? How difficult are they to handle? Thanks. John Mills ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From jeff simpson Subject Re Royal Navy post war 21" Torpedoes asked about Royal Navy post war 21" Torpedoes George Moore in Brown and Moore "Rebuilding the Royal Navy" 2003 Chatam/ Naval Institute Press says of the Type 12 "there were also to be anti-submarine torpedoes, but these had not yet been developed and ultimately they proved a failure." on page 79 of this book there is an overhead view of a Type 12 showing the empty chocks for these AS tubes. Cheers Jeff Simpson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From AAA Hobby Supply Subject Re Color of Civil War Ironclads From PAUL TOSCANO >> I have acquired some ironclad kits but am not too certain of what color to paint them. << These were generally left unpainted, so the color would tend to be a dark metallic charcoal or metallic black. Some of them were covered with a layer of wood, which would be wood-colored, obviously. As for the color callouts, it is kinda hard to say because not many people agree on an exact color. The photos of the CSS/USS Atlanta tend to be the best, IMO. Several can be found at http//www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-us-cs/csa-sh/csash-ag/atlanta.htm I usually start with Alclad Jet Exhaust and weather from there. The laquer base of the paint etches well into the resin and will tolerate oil washes to a certain degree. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "John Mills" Subject RN Figures Hi. I am seeking some advice about the best figures to go on King George V 1/350 Tamiya kit. John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume