Subject: SMML VOL 2966 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 01:53:00 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Parting Shots ... 2 Forefoot of RN ships, WWII 3 Dang! 4 One More Thing (was Re Parting Shots ... 5 Any sources (info) on S-Boats? 6 Regulus I missiles on 10 Essex-class carriers, 4 destroyers, and 2 submarines 7 Re Twin Screw Ups 8 Diorama 9 Regulas I/II missile ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 Wanted Dr. David Stumpf's book; "Regulus The Forgotten Weapon." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "William H. Shuey" Subject Re Parting Shots ... >> Our recent discussion here about FAA aircraft got me interested - so yesterday I bought "Fleet Air Arm - British Carrier Aviation, 1939-1945" by Ron Mackay << This is a nice "economy" book on the subject. If you really want to "get stuck in" on the history of the Fleet Air Arm in the big one I recommend Ron Mackay's much larger effort "Britain's Fleet Air Arm in W.W.II", again by Mr. Mackay. Schiffer Military History books, $60 U.S. ISBN 0-7643-2131-5 It is a lot more money but for your loot you get a hard cover 300+ pages on the subject with 2 appendices covering aircraft and shore stations, and an index. Be it noted that I am not related to Mr. Mackay or employed by Schiffer etc.. Bill Shuey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From David Wells Subject Forefoot of RN ships, WWII Fellow SMMLlies I have an actual modelling question. One of my many ongoing projects is an HMS Lion (1940) conversion. I'm basing it on the Revell 1/570 KGV kit, since it's almost exactly the right size to make a 1/600 Lion. Anyhow, both the Revell and Airfix KGV kits have a strange little structure at the forefoot of the bow, where the keel meets the stem. It's sort of triangular, projecting forward. Airfix's 1/600 Belfast has a similar structure. What is this? Should it be there? My Lion plans don't have this. My current plan is to just cut it off, but I'll reshape it and leave it in place if there's a valid reason for it. "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http//home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Ned Barnett Subject Dang! Dang - I'm flying into Orange County tomorrow - but my non-refundable ticket (ordered just this last Friday) has me coming in too late to catch this show. Next time, how about some advanced notice ... Ned Barnett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Ned Barnett Subject One More Thing (was Re Parting Shots ... I forgot to mention this - This same source - "Fleet Air Arm - British Carrier Aviation, 1939-1945" by Ron Mackay - noted that, as soon as the British Pacific Fleet sailed into combat between Formosa and Okinawa to support the invasion of Okinawa as part of the Fifth Fleet - the very first thing they did - was to sortie a squadron of radar picket destroyers, 60 to 100 nm from the fleet, to "catch" low-flying Kamikaze aircraft long before they could come within range of the British Pacific Fleet's aircraft carriers. In this, they were using exactly the same protocol (for exactly the same reason) as the USN. The use of radar picket destroyers was NOT because of a failure of US FDO operations - that's that what caused the pickets to be used. Instead, it was just good, common sense (coupled with an awareness of the laws of physics as they relate to the propagation of radio waves beyond the visual horizon), a common sense shared by the USN and RN in the face of the unrelenting threat of below-the-radar Kamikaze attacks. I'm sure someone on this list would want to know that ... Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Ned Barnett Subject Any sources (info) on S-Boats? In researching my novel about submarine combat in the P.I at the very start of WW-II, I'm looking for yet more references (plans, photos, books) on S-Boat layout and configuration, performance or actual combat experience. Friedman's sub book is wonderful, but when it comes to internal layout, it's limited. And "Pigboat 39" is a remarkable source on the life of one of those S-Boats, but it does primarily focus on just that one boat. BTW - based on an earlier recommendation, I have purchased that 1/350 model of an S-Boat (the artwork makes it look like an Electric Boat S-Boat, which is the right one for my purposes); it hasn't arrived yet, and I'm sure it will be helpful in getting a feel for the boat - but I'm still looking for more references. Any suggestions would help. Thanks Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Harold Stockton" Subject Regulus I missiles on 10 Essex-class carriers, 4 destroyers, and 2 submarines Starting a new thread about something completely different, what about the operational use of the Vought SSM-N-8 and SSM-N-8a Regulus I missiles on 10 Essex-class carriers, 4 destroyers, and 2 submarines? In May 1954, the Regulus I was declared operational. The tactical missiles, designated SSM-N-8a, were of course not equipped with a landing gear, the space being used for additional fuel. A visible difference between the SSM-N-8 and the SSM-N-8a (RGM-6B) was the slightly bulged chin of the SSM-N-8a, which was necessary to provide a common warhead section for the W-5 and W-27 nuclear warheads. By 1957, 16 ships (10 Essex-class carriers, 4 destroyers, and 2 submarines) were equipped to launch the Regulus. Additionally, many more submarines were equipped with Regulus guidance equipment. The Regulus I had severe inherent shortcomings. A launching submarine had to surface and sit dead in the water, the guidance method was very susceptible to electronic jamming, and the missile itself flew at subsonic speeds, making interception relatively easy. In 1960, Regulus I was no longer used on carriers (it had never been popular, being regarded as a competitor to manned aircraft), but the submarine force had increased to five ships. However, at that time the UGM-27 Polaris SLBM (Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile) system became operational, which rendered the Regulus completely obsolete. The USS Long Beach was to have the SSM-N-8a (RGM-6B) replacement; the SSM-N-9 Regulus II cruise missile, cancelled in late 1958, was proposed to be fitted as a weapon system. An interesting thought to have the Long Beach launch its SSM-N-9 Regulus II missile into North Vietnam instead of its "Crown" missions of aerial surveilance. How were these missiles to be replenished at sea, if at all, after they had been launched? What were the unit designations for the crews onboard the carriers, destroyers, and submarines that used this weapon system? Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Jon Holford" Subject Re Twin Screw Ups 1. For Michael Loring; Re Officers' engineering knowledge. Having been an officer in the RN and merchant navy, I have to hold my hands up and acknowledge that you are largely correct as regards the RN and this would have been truer of the wartime RNR, few of whom were professionals anyway. Monsarrat was a journalist who was into yachting pre-war. They did pretty well all round, but must have had to lean heavily on their senior rates for technical know-how. He himself said that if he had been told that the main thrust block was cushioned on hard boiled eggs, he would hesitate to challenge the statement for fear of betraying his ignorance! That said, even in peacetime we were discouraged from getting our hands dirty anfd gained most of our engineering out of books. BR33 was an excellent handbook, but dealt more in concepts than actual nuts and bolts. Also, experienced technical ratings tended to rightly resent us getting our snouts (yes, of course I know what you called us!) too far in to their work. That implied mistrust. Nevertheless, whatever about your 264s, Michael, I am thankful that no senior rate ever got to write my 206s! The merchant navy was another story. I quickly found that before I could be master of a ship I had to be capable of doing every job on it. I don't say I became expert, but I could carry the ball in any department if I had to. This is because there were no tiffs and mechs to carry us if the thinly spread engineers, caterers, electricians, etc were not about. This happened often enough on ships which usually carried only one of everything, including engineers. Re Castle class The Castles were intended as a reduced frigate design to be built in smaller yards at trhe same time as the Lochs. In effect, they were what Flowers would have been if their Lordships had known in 1939 what they knew in 1942. They "did the business" and were well thought out, but were under-powered with only Flower class engines. Denys Rayner confirms this in "Escort". For all my previous strictures about them, the Lochs were better ships because they were big enough to carry enough of everything. The Kingfishers were quality ships of their kind, with a speed of about 20 knots and twin turbines. They were used on their designed roles, as coastal escorts. In many ways they seem to have paralleled the US 173ft PCs. They were longer, mainly to accommodate the boilers, and resembled very small WW1 destroyers in appearance, and I guess shorter legged, but were comparable in manoeuvrability, speed and weapon carrying potential. Of course, they were not designed with the WW2 experience which went into the PCs, but this did not amount to much in the initial PC design. Regards to all, Jon H ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From =?ISO-8859-2?Q?pawe=B3_wnuk?= Subject Diorama Hello! I'm come from poland and i have one question. How do/did you make this diorama(sea)?? (U.S.S Enterprise) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "Harold Stockton" Subject Regulas I/II missile ships As per my recent posting for a new thread on the Regulas I/II missile ships, unit designations, and operations, I would like to see a furthering of the following information. "The Chance Vought Aircraft RGM-15 Regulus II cruise missile, which could carry a 2,920-pound nuclear warhead at Mach 2 supersonic speed, first flew in May 1956, from Edwards Air Force Base, and was intended to be a replacement for the Regulus I cruise missile, which first entered service in 1955, on the cruiser USS Los Angeles (CA-135) [and on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Hancock], though the aircraft carrier USS Princeton (CV 37) was the first ship to fire it (on December 16, 1952). It was later deployed on three other cruisers, the USS Helena (CA 75), the USS Macon (CA 132), and the USS Toledo (CA 133), ten aircraft carriers [only six actually launched Regulus I missiles.], and five submarines, the USS Barbero (SSG-317), the USS Grayback (SSG-574), the USS Halibut (SSGN-587), the USS Tunny (SSG-282), and the USS Growler (SSG-577), which is now, with a Regulus I missile, on display at the Intrepid Air Sea Space Museum, in New York City. "Four Baltimore Class cruisers were armed with Regulus I missiles. USS Los Angeles (CA 135), USS Helena (CA 75), USS Macon (CA 132) and USS Toledo (CA 133) each carried three Regulus I missiles on operational patrols in the Western Pacific. Los Angeles deployed with Regulus from 1955 to 1961, Helena from 1956 to 1960, Toledo from 1956 to 1959 and Macon from 1956 to 1958. "USS Princeton (CV 37) did not deploy with Regulus I but was the site of the first launch of a Regulus I missile from a warship. USS Hancock (CV 19) was heavily involved in the development of the Regulus Assault Mission concept (RAM) and deployed once to the Western Pacific with four Regulus I missiles in 1955. USS Franklin D. Roosevelt (CVA 42) conducted one test launch. USS Saratoga (CVA 60) also did not deploy but was involved in two demonstration launches. USS Lexington (CV 16) conducted one test launch. USS Randolph (CV 15) deployed to the Mediterranean carrying three Regulus I missiles. "The RAM concept was deployed to the Western Pacific on six carrier deployments with missile launch conducted by a submarine or heavy cruiser and subsequent control to target to be conducted by pilots from supporting aircraft carriers. USS Shangri-La (CV 38), Lexington, USS Ticonderoga (CV 14), participated in these types of deployments. "Once fired, the Regulus I cruise missile could be guided to its target, by a pilot, from a range of 125 miles, at 35,000 feet. However, the Regulus II cruise missile project was cancelled on December 18, 1958, as the United States Navy decided to develop the submarine-launched Polaris ballistic missile, instead, and the Regulus I cruise missile remained in service until 1964, on the USS Halibut, with 514 of them being built. On January 31, 1952, the Navy's experimental Regulus I missile was launched by JATO rocket from the Point Mugu Naval Air Missile Test Center. Once the Regulus was airborne, the JATO boosters ejected and the missile headed out over the Pacific. Controlled by radar from the submarine USS Cusk and by chase aircraft, the missile flew at altitudes above 30,000 feet and at its top cruising speed Mach 0.93. After a 25-minute flight, chase pilot Roy Pearson placed the missile into a terminal dive. Racing straight down, the missile tore a hole through the sound barrier, and smacked into the ocean with a terrific roar. The impact was about a mile from the planned target - accurate enough considering that the deployed version of the Regulus I would carry a nuclear warhead. "Operation Splash", as the test was known, had been an overwhelming success. The last three major hurdles to deployment of the missile - boosted launch, control by a submarine, and terminal dive to target - had been accomplished in one fell swoop. The Navy now had its first operational cruise missile and, with its nuclear capability, a genuine power projection tool. Over the next decade (1953-1964) Reg I would be deployed aboard submarines, cruisers and even aircraft carriers, . . . "In July 1958, the Regulus II program received a major boost with the arrival of one of the Navy's newest weapons, the submarine USS Grayback, at Port Hueneme (a Navy facility near Pt. Mugu). The just-commissioned Grayback, one of four diesel Regulus guided missile boats, would test launch Regulus I and Regulus II dummy sleds as part of its qualification program, and test the new Mark 7 launcher (compatible with both missiles). Launching the Reg II dummy sled would be also serve as the precursor to a full-fledged test launch of a Reg II. "Like its mate USS Growler, USS Grayback had been built with the Regulus II in mind. With its wings, tail and nose folded, a Reg II would just fit into one of the Grayback's twin hangars. It could carry two Reg IIs or, alternately, four Reg I's, or a combination thereof. The other two diesel Regulus submarines in commission, Tunny and Barbero, were modified WWII boats and would not be able to carry the Reg II. Their presence would hardly be missed, however, once the USS Halibut - then under construction at Mare Island - and its three planned sister ships slid down the ways. A nuclear-powered SSG, Halibut would be capable of carrying four missiles in an absolutely gigantic forward hangar - so large that it contained more volume than a WWII fleet-type submarine. "After the Soviet Union and then the United States successfully tested their first intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) in 1957, the nuclear arms race moved into a more dangerous phase. In late 1958, with four SSGs and four Regulus cruisers in commission, the Navy responded by moving all of the submarines and three of the cruisers to the Pacific to maintain regular deterrent patrols threatening the Soviet Far East. In particular, Submarine Squadron ONE was formed of the four SSGs at Pearl Harbor and adopted a readiness posture that put at least four missiles on station in the Western Pacific at all times, to complement existing carrier-based aircraft armed with nuclear weapons. (This required deploying either the two converted fleet boats together or one of the two Graybacks.) Tunny departed on the first of these regularly scheduled deterrent patrols in October 1959, whereas Grayback's and Growler's first patrols commenced in early 1960. "The cancellation of the Regulus II certainly did have negative repercussions. The Navy would have to wait a generation before its cruise missile capability would be restored, and once the Regulus I was withdrawn from service (in 1964) it would again be forced to depend upon aircraft to perform the cruise missile mission. Moreover, the cruiser Navy - four Los Angeles class cruisers [Helena (CA-75), Toledo (CA-133), and Macon (CA-132) were all fitted with fantail launching rails in place of where the floatplane catapults were. http//www.wa3key.com/images/regulus3.jpg , the launch is from the Toledo.] carried the Reg I and seven would have carried the Reg II - temporarily lost their atomic strike capability. "In one stroke, the SSBN/Polaris combination eliminated all the disadvantages of the Regulus system surface launch, liquid fuel, dependence on active tracking and guidance, limited range, small hangar capacity, and a host of other drawbacks. With submerged launch, virtually unlimited endurance, and near invulnerability, the new strategic deterrent quickly supplanted Regulus and the SSG/SSGN. It was not until December 1964, however, that USS Daniel Boone (SSBN-629) conducted the first Polaris patrol in the Pacific, departing Guam that month. Thus, Regulus deterrence was maintained in the western Pacific until May, 1964, when Halibut conducted the final patrol of the series. By that time, the five Regulus [Tunny, Barbero, Grayback, Growler and Halibut] boats had conducted a total of 40 [41] WESTPAC [nuclear] deterrent patrols since October 1959 - and in so doing had pioneered one of the central strategic paradigms of the Cold War. "The missiles, which were initially equipped with W5 120-kiloton nuclear warheads, were later upgraded, beginning in the fall of 1958, with two-megaton W27 thermonuclear warheads. "Grayback and Growler carried four missiles each, Tunny and Barbero each carried two, and the nuclear-powered U.S.S. Halibut carried five. On 90-day patrols, it was necessary for the diesel subs to make fuel stops at either Midway Island or Adak, Alaska, depending on their operating area. "To fire a 'Blue Bird,' as the missiles were called, the submarines not only had to surface and be within range of their targets, they also had to coordinate with two accompanying attack submarines that would position themselves along the missiles' flight path to transmit guidance instructions. "The navy required at least four Regulus missiles to be on station at all times. This meant that either the two-missile boats deployed together, or the others deployed on their own. Many submarines conducted 'back-to-back' patrols from Adak to maintain their rigorous schedule, rather than return to Pearl Harbor." And to finish off this story, what about the period 3/5 May 1955 the boats CUSK, CARBINERO, and TUNNY along with the Tender Nereus (AS17) deployed out of Pearl Harbor into the sea test range and the Tunny launched two Regulus missles down range with the CUSK, CARBINERO, and NEREUS down range acting as range safety and tracking vessels? The Regulus Missles were armed with Nuclear Heads, one launch was sucessful, while the other had to be aborted, thus causing contamination in the area of the NEREUS. Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Harold Stockton" Subject Wanted Dr. David Stumpf's book; "Regulus The Forgotten Weapon." Does anyone out there have a copy of Dr. David Stumpf's book; "Regulus The Forgotten Weapon" for sale? Contact me offline. Thanks. Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume