Subject: SMML VOL 2974 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:20:58 +1000 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re KuK 2 Ships' Names Prefixes 3 Re KuK 4 Re about things to do in Italy 5 Battle Class 6 Re KuK vessels 7 Color/Camo Scheme? Modeling USN S-Boat Sub, PI, 12/7/41 8 Niko Model 1/700 Destroyer Escorts 9 Re KuK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Peter Samolinski" Subject Re KuK It would be KuK in German all nouns are capitalized, while the "und" (and) wouldn't be. There is an excellent novel called "A Sailor of Austria" by John Biggins that, besides being a splendid read about an Austrian U-Boat captain, deals with all the variations on royal titles in the Austro-Hungarian armed forces. The simplest explanation is that the Emperor of Austria was also the King of Hungary due to treaties and agreements from the mid-19th century. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From John Mianowski Subject Ships' Names Prefixes >> John Reid's informative posting in SMML Vol. 2971 on 21OCT05 about things to do in Italy mentions a WW I Austro/Hungarian navy Battleship, KUK (or perhaps KuK) VERIBUTUS UNITIS. Some time ago SMML ran a thread (instigated by me) about the meaning of "KUK" (or "KuK"). Although not in 100 % agreement, the general consensus was that these letters prefacing the names of vessels of the Austro/Hungrian navy prior to 1918 meant "Kaiserliche und Koenigliche", which translates into "King and Emperor". "USS" and "HMS" are fairly well known, and we now have a handle on "KUK" (or "KuK"), I would appreciate it if any SMML naval linguists would please clarify the correct term ("KUK" or "KuK") as well as enlighten us as to the prefacing letters and their meaning as used by other navies of the world. << For a pretty detailed list, see http//www.answers.com/topic/ship-prefix Also http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_prefix I note that Austria-Hungary is not included in either list. This same list appears to be copied in several other web sites. JM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Sab1156@aol.com Subject Re KuK Hi Franklyn, The letters "KUK" were in front of each Austrian ships name (similar to USS,HMS,). The translation is Kaiserliches und Koenigliches Schiff,because the Emperor (Kaiser of Austria was also the king of Hungary (Koenig),the second largest country in their empire. Best regards Detlef ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Rees, Graham" Subject Re about things to do in Italy There is a very impressive cut-away (sectional) 6 metres (20 feet) long model made of metal in the Miliary Museum (housed in the old Arsenal Building in Vienna) of KuK Veributus Unitis. It was made by students (I cannot remember from work of what organisation). When in Vienna, it is a museum well worth a few hours. WWI was precipitated by the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, in non-ship areas, it has on display the car and the Archduke's bloodstained uniform. Mesuem website (both German & English) is www.hgm.or.at . Graham Rees ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Connor, Michael" Subject Battle Class Potter4, In SMML Vol. 2971 you mentioned you were doing a “Battle” from a “Daring” kit in 1/600. I am thinking of doing an Australian “Battle” using a “Daring” hull. A couple of questions if I may. Did you cut the hull to size? If so, how did you proceed? The break of the forecastle is not at the same spot as the “Battle”. I was going to cut the hull just forward of the break. Then I started to wonder if it was worth it for approximately .2 of an inch. I also am a little concerned as to how I would join the two halves of the hull together again. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From Roland Mar Subject Re KuK vessels TO Franklyn Actually the term Kaiserliche und Koenigliche is correct, however the "liche"suffix in German makes it the adjectival form. Rather than "Kaiser und Koenig" which is the real German form for 'Emperor and King' [Kaiser being the German equivalent of Caesar or Emperor], it translates as 'Imperial and Royal'. This comes from the actual title of the ruling Hapsburgs who were Emperors of Austria and Kings of Hungary. Rather like Queen Victoria being both Queen of England and Empress of India. Thus, vessels of the Austro-Hungarian Empire wore both titles. Incidentally, I am pleased and amazed that the Italians preserved the MAS [torpedo boat] that sank the KuK VERIBUTUS UNITUS. If I should ever get to Italy [not likely, sadly] I will make a point of seeing it. Just to see if the SMML-ies are up on WW I naval history, let me throw out a quiz Can anyone name the Italian naval hero who was the captain of that MAS? Hope this helps, Roland Mar ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From Ned Barnett Subject Color/Camo Scheme? Modeling USN S-Boat Sub, PI, 12/7/41 I've got the model but I can't confirm the color scheme. Anybody have any reliable information on the color of the USN Submarines (specifically the antiquated S-Boat subs) based in the Philippines when the Pacific War started? I've seen photos, but they're all B&W, so any useful information would be a big help. Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "F. Pletscher" Subject Niko Model 1/700 Destroyer Escorts Caveat! The Niko models of the French escorts have some major faults. The guns turrets are completely wrong, the ASW mortar has no resemblence to the original, and the superstructure is out of proportion (i.e. the bridge is sitting too far aft). This is very sad, because I like these ships. But it makes them hard to be built in a correct shape. L'Arsenal has, however, announced a correction kit. So one will be able to correct at least some of the drawbacks. Falk Pletscher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From Romain Seil Subject Re KuK Hello I think it should read "KuK". In fact I never saw "KUK" in any German text. It is used very often in German if you want to refer to imperial Austria before 1918. I am not sure if it is "Königlich und Kaiserlich" or "Kaiserlich und Königlich". The explanation is that the head of the Austrian state before 1918 was Emperor of the Holy German Empire (even if the Empire had ceased to exist long before) an King of Hungary. With 2 DIFFERENT Governments in Budapest and Vienna. BTW SMS stands for "Seiner Majestät Schiff" ie the well known HMS Have a good day Romain Seil ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume