Subject: SMML VOL 3000 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:12:50 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Incoming 2 Pearl Harbor 3 Victory ships 4 Why only "pristine" models? 5 Re Antiaircraft Gun Effectiveness? 6 Re Pearl Harbour 7 Re Zeros and Buffalos and Wildcats, Oh My ... 8 HMS Badsworth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Subject Incoming >> The discussion on AAA is very interesting but I have a slightly different question to pose What is fired up must come down, even with proximity fuses or timed fuses << The dynamics mean that consorts are more likely to receive the spent fire. Most shells were timed or proximity fuzed and what tended to come down was spent shrapnel, not particularly fast or hot. In post war shoots (I was not around WW2) we used to just sweep the stuff off the decks, looking back I get pretty mad when I think in later years some of that was depleted uranium! Injury tended to be to the eyes with goofers looking up at the fun, I got metal filings in both eyes watching the Belgrano beat up the sky in an attempt to warn us off (this was before '82 of course) and was virtually blind for a month and suffered conjunctivitis for over a year afterward. I have heard of raining shrapnel jamming radar motors and so on, but the only damage I ever saw done was when a big piece of wire (some weapons are bound with wire which expands into a kind of whip designed to rip through an aircraft) came down on the satcom and it smacked a great lightning bolt to the nearest guardrail blowing half the circuits and leaving one sailor with an urgent laundry need. Now missiles are a different matter. The venerable seacat springs to mind, the first AA missile I believe and still around until the 90's. This wonderful device was loaded by hand with the launcher rail dropped, when returned to the vertical part of the firing circuits would be made. Salt water sometimes caused them all to be made and the missile would promptly launch straight up, sometimes killing the unfortunate loader. The missile would fly up about three miles and then come back down pretty much where it wanted, but it is a big sea and a ship makes a small target so I don't think any actually hit. Likewise when fired properly the seacat if it missed might be steered back after the target by a frustrated gunner, this meant climbing the missile up into a loop and sending it back toward the ship after the target. At which point invariably the reservoir of compressed hydraulic oil used to steer the missile would run out and the missile would be left jammed on an intercept course with the firing ship. Again, I can recall near misses and hastily kissing the deck, but no actual hits. The mighty seaslug used to have an identity crises and think it was a torpedo, more than one squadron have scattered wildly as a fizzing seaslug tore through the water after them. I recall totalling a farm and later a car park with seaslugs that actually flew, but the only casualties were a lot of cows and one shell shocked courting couple. Oddly enough the very last shoot I witnessed was also a rogue. A Seawolf fired from the for'ad launcher took off with a hard right steer jammed on. As soon as it exited the gather beam the missile self destructed close to the starboard bridge wing, which was laden with dignitaries come to watch the fun. All survived, just about. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Peter Chant" Subject Pearl Harbor Several posts have mentioned the things the Japanese should have done to increase their success at Pearl Harbor. Have any of our experts read "Days of Infamy" by Harry Turtledove? It is an alternative history in which the Japanese follow up the air attack with an army invasion to occupy the Hawaiian islands. I found it an entertaining read but do not know enough to comments on the details of the scenario. Since Turtledove is a Byzantine historian by training has he got his 1941 facts right? Peter Plymouth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Jean-Pierre Coddron" Subject Victory ships A modeller I met at an IPMS convention told me that a model of a Victory ship would (at last) be issued quite soon. Has anyone heard of that project? Or is it just another reissue of some look-alike from Revell? If it is true, what will be the scale (hopefully 1/350!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Norman Samish" Subject Why only "pristine" models? To all the naval warfare historical experts I love your discussions and debates, and find them very informative and illuminating. Please keep them coming. I've also wondered, along with Dean Markley, why ship models showing battle damage are so seldom seen. My guess is that they would be challenging to portray accurately and convincingly. But is there a bias in shows to award prizes to only "pristine" models? Norman Samish ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Howard Brower Subject Re Antiaircraft Gun Effectiveness? Dean If you check out all the information on the attack at Pearl Harbor you will see that most of the damage (if not all) done to the surrounding area, ie; Honolulu and other towns, was done by unexploded U.S. Naval antiaircraft ordance. So, yes, what goes up must come down. Also later in the war, unexploded, and misaimed aimed antiaircraft fire caused many wounded sailors on the ships in the vincinty of of other ships that were firing at aircraft that kept firing even after a ship came into their sights. Howard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "rwsmithjr@rcn.com" Subject Re Pearl Harbour From Ned Barnett >> Odd, but I recall three or four that were never back in service - and I can't recall any of them (other than the USS Pennsylvania) that were anywhere near back in service within 6 months. You might want to check your sources << You might want to check your sources as well....Maryland came out of Bremerton with Colorado and went back into the line in Feb., 1942, Tennessee was not too far benhind. So the two BB's Maryland and Tennessee were in fact back in service rather quickly (Colorado was at Bremerton during the PH attack undergoing refit) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From RDemeyere@aol.com Subject Re Zeros and Buffalos and Wildcats, Oh My ... Gentlemen, I don't have anything to add to your already exhaustive discussion but I would like to bring to your attention two articles by Jon Parshall at the "Combined Fleet" website ( http//www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm ) that might be of interest to you (if you haven't already read them) Why Japan Really Lost the War (http//www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm) - This is an economic analysis of the vastly differing abilities of Japan and the United States to replace ship loses - specifically aircraft carriers. In some respects, it is old news since the disparity between the two economies is widely acknowledged in a general way in most histories. What is interesting (at least to me ) about this analysis is that it looks at actual building schedules for the ships to illustrate, as the author puts it, why "winning Midway may have not mattered." Invasion Peral Harbour (http//www.combinedfleet.com/pearlops.htm) - This article postulates in some detail the forces needed to mount a successful invasion of Hawaii then looks at the IJA order of battle and IJN shipping situation to see if the resources were available to make the effort. Hint situation not very favorable. Russ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Keith Butterley Subject HMS Badsworth Hi group Anybody have any information about this ship after she was mined and before she was transferred to the RNN? Keith Butterley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume