Subject: SMML VOL 3002 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:30:43 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Hms Badsworth 2 Battle damage 3 Re Pristine Models 4 Re Oglala (Pearl Harbor) 5 Re USS Albacore 6 Re Pristine models 7 Re Trumpeter Slava 8 Alternate Pearl Harbor 9 Happy 3000! 10 U-Boat Fact File 11 Re USS Albacore 12 Happy 3000!!!! 13 172 Conversions etc 14 Photos Chinese Spacecraft Tracker Ships 15 Battle Damage 16 U Boat Font of Knowledge 17 Pristine Models ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Wetherhorn" Subject Re Hms Badsworth BADSWORTH had a hard war, but survived. She was mined TWICE. I imagine you want to know about her active career in the RN, so here we go. A type 2 Hunt built by Cammell-Laird (yard numer 3260) laid down 15-5-40, launched 17-3-41, completed 18-8-41 pennant number L03 . completed without type 271 radar and sporting her first camouflge pattern she was assigned to the Londonderry Escort Force. She served as part of the escort for convoy PQ15 to Murmansk (20-4-42 to 5-5-42) and for returning convoy QP12 (21-5-42 to 29-5-42) She was next sent to the Mediterranean to escort the "Harpoon" convoy. she was mined off Grand Harbour, Malta and the ship was flooded forward of the forward 4" magazine. Temporary repairs at Malta made her servicable enough to help HMS MATCHLESS escort the empty transports ORARI and TROILUS home (left Malta 10-8-42). She was under repair on the Tyne until November 42 when she joined the Londonderry Escort Force again. By this time she apparantly had radar and was probably wearing a different camouflage pattern. She was assigned to the 60th destroyer division in apil 1943 (once again, in the Med) and suffered her second mining on 22-4-43 off Bone harbour. The damage was much more severe than the first time, and she had to be towed to Malta by HMS CLACTON. Temporary repairs did not make her engines useable and she was towed back to the UK with convoy MKS15 by the fleet tug FRISKY. Repairs at Liverpool lasted until Nov 1944. When she returned to service, it was as HNorMS AREDNAL with the 16th Destroyer Flotilla at Harwich.(official transfer date 9-8-44) If you are planning to model her, there is a lovely color centerfold in Man o'War 41 "Hunt class escort destroyers" by Raven and Roberts. Be aware, however, that the pattern may have been different on the port side because there are undated photos showing her port side, without radar, and carrying camouflage that does NOT match that of the centerfold of her starboard side. Aryeh Wetherhorn Elazar, Israel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Rick Biesik" Subject Battle damage I did a diorama(it was titled"The last hours of Thor") years ago showing the Bismarck in her pummeled state right before she sank, using the Revell 400th+/- scale Bismarck. It turned out pretty good, but never won a award, I don't even recall whatever happened to the diorama. Rick B ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Daniel Bauer" Subject Re Pristine Models First, I would like to say Congrats SMML on the 3000 milestone! I have learned alot from this forum! Ok, with that said, I would like to put in my opinion on the weathering of ships. When you are doing a model, you must take into consideration the scale first. A 1/700 scale or smaller will not need too great a weathering unless it calls for it, ei. a ship that has been out to sea for a long period of time or the condition of the ship. Most ships in harbor will have some degree of weather effects, but again the best idea is to look at actual photos of the ship in question or the time frame you wish the ship to be in. Paint schemes on ships changed, as well as being out to sea during different soties. But yes, I agree, every ship should show some degree of weather effect, even after commisioning. Regards, Dan Bauer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Ned Barnett Subject Re Oglala (Pearl Harbor) >> Actually, OGLALA was refloated and put back into service in a comparitively short time. She survived the war, and sat for years in the "Mothball Fleet" at Benicia, California. I recall seeing her there (but didn't know at the time what she was). She should have been a candidate for preservation, IMHO. << Yeah - my bad. What comes of relying on memory instead of research. Thanks, John. Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From johnsheridan@yankeemodelworks.com Subject Re USS Albacore >> Am modeling the USS Albacore from scratch. Says it had dive brakes around her middle section. O. K. What did these look like? Anybody have a photo of these dive brakes? Or a description of their appearance. << Christian, The dive brakes her at the mid-point of the hull. They look exactly like aircraft dive brakes would look like (3 on each side). Suffice to say, the experiment was short-lived since the brakes tended to nose-dive the sub whenever they deployed. They were almost as bad as the parachute experiment. Contact me offline since I have plenty on Albacore and all of her configs. John Sheridan Yankee Modelworks ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From LymanJohnF@aol.com Subject Re Pristine models I'm not sure the original comment was directed at weathering, shading, and other techniques for adding life, dimension, and wear to a ship model - I've seen plenty of ship models with running rust, faded camouflage, and the like - but rather at actual battle scars. Part of the reason we don't see it with ship models, particularly in 1/700 and similar scales, is because of scale and context. Shot near-penetrations on a 1/35 tank are large and obvious; a shell hole in the hull of a 1/700 cruiser might not be visible, much less obvious. Battlefield photography, from which model makers and dioramists receive their inspiration, often show damaged and scarred fighting vehicles still in the fight, or perhaps just after; photography of damaged warships is usually in the shipyard setting, with a few notable exceptions - GRAF SPEE at Montevideo, for example. There is the additional factor of the effects of damage, particularly smoke and fire. Modeling those effects is extremely difficult without producing a cheesy appearance. I am presently sketching a diorama to include the SkyWave kit of the IJN repair ship AKASHI moored in the Truk lagoon, with a shot-up cruiser alongside and a damaged and flooded destroyer anchored nearby. In that setting, the fires are out and the smoke has dissipated, although the soot and scorching will remain, and I can crunch topside gear to my heart's content, with a crane overhead removing the mess and a cofferdam around the underwater hull damage. This scene serves two purposes - the AKASHI can be displayed "in action" and serious but repairable ship damage can be replicated. John F. Lyman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From Pieter Cornelissen Subject Re Trumpeter Slava >> I was happy to have an easy-to-build kit of a Slava class cruiser before I read Pieter Cornelissen's posting in SMML Vol. 2998. After that, I had to check my own references. And after this, I would like to add the following comments In a book by Apal'kov Udarnye Korabli from 2003 the dimensions of Project 1164 (Slava class) are given as follows Loa - 186,0m, Lwl - 170,0m, Boa - 20,8m, Bwl - 19,2m. According to these figures, the Trumpeter kit measures out quite correctly, while the Kombrig kit is about 1mm to long on the waterline and 2 - 2.5mm too large in beam. There are also some drawings in 1/700 scale, and the Trumpeter kit is matching them pretty well. According to this source, Project 11641 (Varyag) was 6m longer than Project 1164, and none of the kits is correct in this aspect. In my opinon, Pieter's comments on the shape of the fore part of the hull are arguable. My impression is, that the Trumpeter kit is almost correct. But there might be differences between the ships of this class. I am not quite sure if the shape of the after part of the hull (quarter deck) is not given more correctly with the Kombrig kit. Compared with photos, the Trumpeter kit may be a little too narrow. The Kombrig kit has straight vertical funnel sides. With the Trumpeter kit, the outer funnel sides are leaning a bit outboard. Compared with photos, this seems to be correct. After all, the Trumpeter kit appears to be a bit better. But you will need at least the Kombrig PE fret and their decals to build a propper kit. So don't throw away your Kombrig kits. << Falk, The main problem with the forward hull shape is that the sheer line starts to go up too far forward in the Trumpeter kit (ths 's' shape at the bow is a minor problem) and that the whole hull seems to be a bit too low. This means that the forward part of the forward superstructure and the missile cannisters 'sit' too low. This is really noticable once you have assembled them, and it was this observation that started my own digging through pictures and references. I would not use the word 'arguable' for that and this is a problem which is very difficult to correct. About the lenght, Pavlov gives the same over all figures but does not mention a Bwl and Lwl figure. This means I did not spot the Bwl problem, which can be fixed by filing away resin (My own Slava is in the rigging phase so I wont't be doing that I think). I also wonder if the Bwl figure is correct when looking at the few pictured from straight ahaead I have seen as it will mean a very sharp knuckle compared to these pictures. I wonder how you found a correct over all length for the Trumpeter kit with these figures, but 2mm in lenght is a possible error on a lenght of 26,5 cm so that may have been my mistake. BTW I do not consider the Trumpeter/Skywave approach of a large number of seperate superstructure panels easy-to-built but this is a question of building style. Oh well, back to correcting Great Western. I love working on a kit for which full lines are available, even if the kit is in 1/495. Pieter Cornelissen Delft The Netherlands ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Burl Burlingame Subject Alternate Pearl Harbor Another work is "Black Ocean" by Rick Blaine. But in that one, the Japanese co-opt the islands thanks to imperial intermarriage, and the Americans attack... many inside references to the actual history, turned inside out. Burl Burlingame ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject Happy 3000! Donnerwetter! Three thousand! I congratulate you all and all the readers and contributors. Ulrich Rudofsky ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From Sell4853@aol.com Subject U-Boat Fact File U-boat sinking of Allied shipping in WWll the following site should be of help- http//uboat.net/ops/top_patrols.htm especially with regard to the book U Boat Fact File by Peter Sharpe see in http//uboat.net/books/item/251 Yours Norman SELLS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From ives100@aol.com Subject Re USS Albacore >> Am modeling the USS Albacore from scratch. Says it had dive brakes around her middle section. O. K. What did these look like? Anybody have a photo of these dive brakes? Or a description of their appearance. << I have lots of material on Albacore, including drawings, photos, etc. The dive brakes were not installed for very long (because they really didn't work very well,and are essentially a set of flaps installed amidships. The more pressing question is which version of Albacore are you modeling? There was Phase I, II, III and IV, all with very different rudder-propeller arrangements. Phases III & IV had co-axial contra-props and an X-tail. Contact me at ives100@aol.com Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From GUSDOCVILL@aol.com Subject Happy 3000!!!! Keep up the excellent work!!! Happy Thanksgiving Day to you both and all SMMLies throughout the world!!! Grace and peace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, bless you all and your beloved families forever. Gus Semper Fi ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From "roger pearson" Subject 172 Conversions etc Hi Shane, My heartiest congratulations on achieving 3000 volumes to the SMML, it shows a great deal of dedication on your's and Lorna's parts. GREAT WORK !!!!!!!!!! Greetings from OZ to all SMML'ers, In the not too distant future (governed by GLS releases) I plan on doing the following 172nd scale conversions from the three available British WW2 craft --- 1. The Airfix MTB into MTB 532 which was a type II 73 footer, 2. The Revell Vosper MTB into a 1940 build 70 footer, 3. The Airfix ASRL into a) MGB 43, A Brit Pwr Boat Co 63 footer, b) MA/SB 37, again built by BPB Co and c) MGB 64, also A BPB Co boat, but 70 feet long. This one will provide the best challenge. This boat was skippered by Lt Cdr R P Hichens who during his rather short career won the DSO twice, the DSC thrice and three times he was Mentioned in Despatches. In the distant future when GLS releases his Fairmile B and his HDML, I plan on doing ML 825 the only RAN Fairmile to bring down a Zero fighter and HDML 1347 skippered by Lt Marsden Hordern RANVR who wrote a book about his experiences around Northern Australia and PNG. The second part of this post deals with Do any of you know of Brian Eaton of Surrey and Christian Sheppard of Gibraltar and could you please put me in touch with both gents ? Anyone who done these conversions or is considering doing these conversion, please get in touch. Thank You, Roger Pearson. Bendigo, Australia. phone 61 3 5447 8693 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From Kelvin Mok Subject Photos Chinese Spacecraft Tracker Ships The Yuanwang-3 tracking ship that has accomplishing tasks of tracking the Shenzhou-6 spaceship returns home on Nov 23. China's four Yuanwang series tracking ships have all returned safely. Photos at http//english.people.com.cn/200511/24/eng20051124_223657.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From Subject Battle Damage >> I've also wondered, along with Dean Markley, why ship models showing battle damage are so seldom seen. My guess is that they would be challenging to portray accurately and convincingly. But is there a bias in shows to award prizes to only "pristine" models? << I would say it is very hard to model battle damage such that it did not look like somebody sat on the model! I recently congratulated the builder of a Flower Class at a model show on his simulation of months of wear in Atlantic Gales, well, you know when you have said the wrong thing don't you? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From Subject U Boat Font of Knowledge >> How many Allied warships and auxiliary vessels were sunk by U-boats in WWII? << For everything U Boat war related try this site http//uboat.net/boats.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From "Mason, Jeff" Subject Pristine Models Reading the mail about pristine ship models reminds me of,,,,,,,,, When I was a Lad of about 9 0r 10 I was enspired to tackle my first Diorama. The inspiration came from the film Sink The Bismarck. The subject I chose was a 1/600 model of the Bismarck that was bought for me by the old man & many hours of guidance & his skills added during its construction The said model disappeared into the garden shed where a multitude of materials lay at my disposal. The unwanted lower hill was removed With a Stanley knife along with a large amount of flesh from my fingers, the rigging & masts turned into a massive tangle (good for effect I thought) a serious list to port was added, Turrets Anton & Bruno received a spectacular hit from HMS Rodney, the sea was made from Carlite Browning finished in bright blue gloss paint, along with most of the shed floor, Some very effective shell bursts made from plasticine & white emulsion were added, Finally for effect black splodges appeared along the model imitating shell damage. Upon his arrival home from work, the Old Man, totally failing to grasp the advanced modeling skill his eldest son had attained, promptly gave me a serious list to port & put me in dry dock for several days to contemplate the error of my way’s. Jeff Mason ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume