Subject: SMML VOL 3012 Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:31:09 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Interesting variation of modeling damaged ships 2 Ships Sinking Stern First? 3 Re 1/72 plasticModels 4 Documentary on ARD 5 Re 172 Ship's boats 6 technical illustrations 7 Carrier Plane for All Seasons? 8 Four-stacker bridges 9 Re HMS Telemacus 1917 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject Re Interesting variation of modeling damaged ships >>An interesting side, observation. Most films (newsreels, etc.) showing the last few seconds of a stricken ship depict it going down stern first. I wonder why so many ships seem to sink that way. Any comments, SMML? << It's always been my supposition it's because the engineering spaces with the heavy reciprocating engines and/or turbines, and shafts and screws are generally located in the stern and therefore that would be the heaviest part of the ship. The forward spaces are usually cargo holds and passager/living spaces in the forecastle and more buoyant. Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div., M.S.I.S. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From John Mianowski Subject Ships Sinking Stern First? As one who has been involved in sinking model ships frequently (see http//www.ntxbg.org - my position on showing damage should be apparent ;-) I can shed some light, perhaps It depends. It depends on a lot of things, including the degree of compartmentalization, the general weight distribution (including cargo loading), hull shape, specific damage, & ballasting of the ship. I can say with pretty good certainty, after seeing many of the same ships sunk multiple times, that some ships tend to sink a certain way. Some of this is by design, at least in functional combat models - I doubt that any 11 naval architect ever gives 2 seconds of thought to how a ship performs as it's going down! For example, our club has a small fleet of identically-constructed Liberty Ships that all have extra lead shot ballast in their bows. Internal equipment is placed so that they sail with a good trim, but as they reach neutral buoyancy the bows drop, raising the sterns out of the water. This is always a crowd-pleasing sight, especially those times when the prop is still turning! Most of our model warships have more topweight than most transports, & tend to roll over when sunk, returning to upright on reaching neutral buoyancy. We don't allow compartmentalization like 11 warships have, but most of our warship models are pretty-well balanced fore-aft. One notable exception is my HMS Nelson which, due to its unusual main battery arrangement, has the heavy CO2 bottle & regulator stuffed all the way forward - it sinks bow-first, just like the Liberty Ships. Consider the Titanic example Moderate (if marginally effective) compartmentalization forward; progressive flooding of compartments leading to loss of buoyancy forward while maintaining buoyancy aft. Another well-known example, Szent Istvan Compartmentalized hull, although probably less well so than later ships - I presume that they would have been operating at the A-H Navy's equivalent to the USN's Condition Z at the time; damage to 1 side only, lots of topweight; loss of buoyancy on 1 side only (did they try to counter-flood?); ship maintains an "even keel" & rolls to starboard. Look at the internal layout of a specific ship & see where the dense equipment is located. Consider the load-out, too - if there are railroad locomotives, aircraft engines, etc. in the #1 hold, that may tip the balance forward under neutral buoyancy conditions, although I doubt that many ships would be loaded with much heavy cargo forward & light cargo aft, to keep good trim for sailing. One more thing that I've noticed, building & sailing models ships The stern's contribution to overall buoyancy of the ship is almost negligible. By that I mean where the hull starts to curve upward to clear shafts & rudders. I've developed my own rule of thumb for basic arrangement Find the midway point between the point where the hull starts to turn upward in the stern to the bow, & put the lead-filled boxes (batteries) there. So, consider the "typical" merchant ship Little buoyancy contribution in the stern to start with, dense equipment such as engines & aux. machinery mostly if not all aft of center, no compartmentalization to speak of, no heavy cargo loaded forward. It's not unreasonable to expect, as buoyancy becomes neutral, that the denser stern would tip downward, raising the bow. It isn't increased weight (of water) that sinks ships, it's loss of displacement. Any ship on the bottom weighs exactly the same as it did on the surface (if you can gather up all the pieces) - it just doesn't displace anywhere near the same amount of water as it once did. JM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Johnny Geldhof" Subject Re 1/72 plasticModels Hello, I know that Art-Toys also brings out models on 1/76 (not 1/72) in Resin. They are good and be combined with 1/72 without any problems. Have a look at the following link http//www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Art_Toys_Kits___Models_______________RETAIL_ONLY_.html They have the LCA, LCP, LCT4 and perhaps some others. They also produced the small German submarins Neger and Bibber. Happy modeling, Johnny Geldhof http//royalnavysectionbelge.navy.be/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Johnny Geldhof" Subject Documentary on ARD Hello, Did anyone see and recorded the documentary 'Hitlers Meereskämpfer'? It has been sent out on ARD from 23u00 till 00u15 CET. Should anybody could help me on a copy ? I saw the last half hour and it was most interesting. Thanks for any reaction. Johnny Geldhof http//royalnavysectionbelge.navy.be/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Harold Stockton" Subject Re 172 Ship's boats Chris Drage wrote >> I am trying to source a 172 ship's lifeboat (merchant navy WWII pattern) in whatever media is available. Does any recipient of the list know of such an item and the details of precurment...??? << You might try D.J. Parkins site at http//www.djparkins.clara.net/gls/glsmast.htm . He has the following items that might fit your needs. 16' Dinghy & Stowage, This kit provides a finely cast replacement in injection-resin for the inaccurate kit item and is a host of fine parts in etched brass and cast metal to complete a super-detailed model. In addition - there is a complete set of cast and etched parts for the stowage equipment for the dinghy - the fit of which is matched to the locations provided in our Deck & Fittings Set - [two kits required for most corvettes]. 27' Whaler & Stowage, [for later release], An interesting model in its own right, this kit provides a super detailed hull in injection resin and a host of fine parts in etched brass and cast metal for the larger boat fitted to the starboard boat station on many Canadian corvettes. Again, all stowage is supplied, plus a deck overlay section for fitting to your corvette. Note that on vessels fitted with this boat - the same area to port was usually used for additional Carley Float stowage. These should take care of your needs. Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Pagsuyoin, Art" Subject technical illustrations Hi all- Came across this great site that has a good amount of pre-wwII (mostly) technical cutaways http//www.cyber-heritage.co.uk/cutaway/ great subjects. Art Pagsuyoin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From Ned Barnett Subject Carrier Plane for All Seasons? I saw a Military Channel special on the FA-18 Hornet last night, and it mentioned that the new Super Hornet (FA-18 E/F) will be replacing the Hoover (S-2 Viking) aerial tanker and ASW aircraft, the Queer (EA-6) jammer aircraft, as well as the F-14 Tomcat fighter. I cannot for the life of me imagine how a fighter can effectively "do" ASW - or how a one- or two-man aircraft can effectively replace the six-man EA-6 in the jamming mission. Or, for that matter, how a slower fighter without a Phoenix can adequately defend the fleet. Anybody got any ideas on what the Navy's thinking? Is this a matter of "budget uber alles" or is there some other rationale that escapes me. As a fleet defense fighter, the Super Hornet seems to be a step in the right direction - more weapons, longer range (though why they're not figuring out how to fit the Phoenix is beyond me). But ASW requires low-and-slow, the ability to drop sonobouy patterns, an onboard TACCO officer (along with one or two other sensor platform operators), etc. Same kinds of limitations on a two-man jammer, or so it seems. So, any ideas, insights, rationales, excuses, or official "BS"? Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Burl Burlingame Subject Four-stacker bridges The bridge on the four-stacker was pretty much open to the elements, but even some of the tin-can vets have no memory of what the color was of the bridge interior. I have a hard time believing it was Measure 1. Other smaller crafts had mint-green bridge areas at the time, I think. Is that the case with four-stackers? Anybody venture a guess? Burl Burlingame ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From George Colleen Hargreaves Subject Re HMS Telemacus 1917 Hi John, From British Warships 1914-1919 by FJ Dittmar & JJ Colledge there is Pendant Number F86 Jan 1917, F23 Jan 1918 and F81 April 1918 Ordered March 1918 from John Brown was launched April 21, 1917 and sold to Hughes Bolckow July 26, 1927. She was completed as a minelayer, 60 mines, as per Admiralty order 12.1.17. It is mentioned that the R-Class served with the Grand Fleet or the Harwich Force from completion. Will you be selling copies of the plan for HMS Telemacus? Cheers, George Hargreaves Calgary. AB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume