Subject: SMML VOL 3023 Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 01:59:51 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Old US model kits 2 Re Revell Polaris Sub propellor 3 More on High Jump 4 Re Revell Polaris Sub Prop 5 Re Computer Thread 6 Re Old US Ship Models 7 Clarification on those POLARIS PROPS 8 Re 1920 "war" 9 Historical Request 10 Re 1920 "war" and CMB Colors 11 Re Operation Highjump 12 1920 Wars with Russia 13 U.S.S. NECHES by Paul Lindberg-Fleet OilerModel & BX (#6023503134) 14 Revell/Renwal Polaris Submarine (propeller) 15 Yamato Movie 16 My first gift ship 17 Computer thread and ships (in this case, submarines) 18 Re Any CV-47/RD-4 "Operation Highjump" photos? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From SantMin@aol.com Subject Re Old US model kits >> You're not out to lunch, Rick. Try googling on "monogram speedee bilt" and you will get information on the planes you remember. These show up on eBay now and then as well. << And many of them are being reproduced and sold by R.W.Anderson, 115 Sue Ann Ct. Sterling, VA 20164 USA Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From David Wells Subject Re Revell Polaris Sub propellor Rob Brown wrote >> Anybody know where I can get a propellor for the old Revell 1/250 cut-away George Washington class Polaris sub? I'd like to put replace the kit propellor with one of the ones that have the curved blades. << "Rick Nelson" >> Here is what I plan on doing to outfit my Renwall Ethan Allen Class USS Sam Houston (I served on her in the '60s) with a scale looking scythe propeller I purchased Flagship Models's 1/350 scale PE "Modern Submarine Propellers, FM 350-6" and using a copying machine will scale them up to a 1/200 (my Renwall is 1/200) template by setting the copying machine to a 175% enlargement. With this template I will trace the scythe prop onto a piece of brass stock, cut it out, and shape each blade with a "progressive" curve. The scythe props are referred to as "variable pitch" props, not because the pitch could be changed but because the pitch that is machined into each blade varies along the length of the blade. BTW, I asked Flagship Models if they would offer a 1/200 version of these propellers and got a rather rude "no way" back from them. Seems like I'm not the only one looking for a different scale version. Good luck. << I took a different approach. For my Renwal 1/200 projects, I measured the diameter of the 5-blade "stock" propeller, which turned out to be about 1 inch (25mm) in diameter. I have a couple of Blue Water Navy 1/350 modern sub photo etch sets. These come with 3 propellers one 5-blade, and two 7-blade. The larger 7-blade (I suspect it was intended for an Ohio-class) is about an inch in diameter. I am thus planning on using the larger 7-blade on some of my old Renwal SSBNs. The smaller 7-blade from this set might work on the 1/250 Revell sub. Rob might check the diameter of his original propeller. Potential problems with my idea 1) Renwal & Revell might have gotten the diameter of their original props wrong. 2) The real 7-blade props retrofitted to George Washington & Ethan Allen class subs might have a larger diameter than the original 5-blade. 3) I don't know if Yankee Model Works (sort of the successor to BWN) is selling this photoetch set. "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http//home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From CaptainOD@aol.com Subject More on High Jump An easier way to get the reference is National Geographic put all of their issues on CD's. I have the complete set and it is great for research on Navy/Marine related stuff and you don't have a ton of moldy magazines to contend with. Bob O'D ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Rick Nelson" Subject Re Revell Polaris Sub Prop From beyondsun@mindspring.com >> I scratchbuilt a 7-bladed scimitar ("bananna-blade") prop for the Renwal 1/200 Polaris SSBN - not too far off from the Revell 1/250. I'm about to make a mold of it for resin casting, and will give you one of the test pops when ready, if you contact me. (And everybody else who's interested if you let me know and there's enough of you, I'll consider producing such castings for sale.) << Hi Matt, Just read your piece on SMML, PLEASE sign me up for two props. You will most likely see my response to Rob's post and how I plan on solving the problem but it sounds like you are much farther down the road than I am. I would be glad to contribute some $ to your efforts. Rick Nelson "Damn the Pressure, Six-Zero feet!" "Boomers Hide With Pride" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Rick Nelson" Subject Re Computer Thread From >> Talk about disk drives!! A disk drive used to be referred to as a "washing machine" because 1) it stood that high; 2) shook itself all over the floor when it was doing rapid head movements; 3) the "disk" was actually 10 separate disks contained in a "disk pack" with handle; 4) when you had a head crash it usually resulted in 20 head failures; 5) a head alignment (for all 20) took a couple of hours, a special alignment pack, and required beryllium based tools because of the 30 lb permanent magnet in the head actuator. All of this for 20 M Bytes! of disk storage!!! << I worked at Digital Equipment in 1972 and was present for the birth of the PDP11. I was a PDP10 guy however. Loved those refrigerator sized cabinets that held 32 KBytes of "core" memory. Rick Nelson "Damn the Pressure, Six-Zero feet!" "Boomers Hide With Pride" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Ron Schmitt" Subject Re Old US Ship Models The first ship model I remember getting for Christmas was a Monogram "Chicago" and by coincidence my best friend got the Destroyer "Hobby". Before that I remember that my older brother had the Strombecker solid wood models of the "Gambier Bay" and "Tacoma". In the traditions of the rights of passage for a boy of 12, I got a .22 rifle and the Revell "Missouri" A set of Pactra paints helped put the finishing touches. Silver guns and of course yellow bridge windows because the the lights were on. Of course the best time to work on the models is while watching "Victory at Sea" or "Navy Log" and if you were working on your Lindberg Sub then you had to watch "Silent Service" Ron Puyallup WA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From beyondsun@mindspring.com Subject Clarification on those POLARIS PROPS THANK you (you know who you all are) for the interest in castings of a 1/200 scale Polaris sub prop. For those of you with the Revell 1/250 scale kit, a little clarification Although I will be casting a 1/200 scale prop, my thought was that, being in resin, it will be easily shaved/shaped down (the roughly 20%) to a passable 1/250 scale prop. (Certainly a great improvement over either of the two props issued over the years with these kits - and exactly what I intend to do for mine, too.) With this in mind I'm currently planning on including an additional, smaller tail tip cone - again, specifically for the 1/250 scale application. If this clarifies/sparks interest for any of you additional 1/250-ers, please let me know ASAP. (The total number of interested modelers has a bearing on what priority I assign to this project, don'tcha know... LOL) Cheers, Matty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Subject Re 1920 "war" Franklyn Brown asked in SMML 3022 for any leads on the 1920 "war" (against the Bolsheviks). Here is a simple (perhaps simplistic) summary. The "war" really began in the Fall of 1918, when the Bolsheviks stormed the British Embassy. As a result, the Allies, apparently unable to make headway through diplomacy, positioned land and sea forces in various parts of Russia. Part of the rationale appears to have been due to fears that Lenin's armistice with the German alliance, signed around the end of 1917, would strongly increase the danger for the Allies. For example, there was a great risk that the Germans would capture the vast stocks of supplies still available to the Russians. One objective of the Allies' military intervention appears to have been to prevent this. Later, the Allies got involved in the White vs Red conflict. It seems that the Allied direct involvement had ended around 1920, at least in North Russia. The subject generally is complicated as it involves both land and sea operations, but there is ample general history in the public domain. The SMML thread focusses on the Royal Navy operations, specifically CMB 4. The famous exploit of CMB 4, in which Lt. Agar won his Victoria Cross, took place in June 1919. There was an equally dashing attack by CMB's shortly afterward, in August, against the huge fortress of Kronstadt; this effectively destroyed the Bolshevik naval threat in the Baltic. There is quite a good description of these operations in the book 'Gunboat! - Small Ships at War' by Bryan Perrett, pub. Cassell & Co., London, 2000 (ISBN 0-304-35302-7), Chapt. 10, pages 157-163. Elsewhere, the book covers activities from the Crimean War through the escape of HMS 'Amethyst' in 1949, and even touches on Vietnam. The book has no mention of the color of the ships and boats involved in North Russia, but in the photograph section of the book after page 96, there is a shot of the gunboat HMS 'Glowworm' being shelled by the Bolsheviks in the River Dvina. She appears to be in a dark color (gray?). It might be deduced that a wartime gray might have been generally applied. Brian Taylor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From Joe Hinds Subject Historical Request Ms.Jenkins, I am responding to request for a few more details about the Winter War, Baltic Sea,1919-1920. Chris Hughes, Franklyn Brown, Roger Lambert, Ken Goldman and John Lambert have all responded to my earlier posting. I need totally accurate and documented information on ships and boats colors. I have waited, in many case,s for a couple of years to get the absolute correct colors for my works. In this case Chris Hughes is going to the Ducksworth Museum to take photos for me and match the color on CMB-4 they have on display.He is also going to make sure that the boat is wearing the colors she wore during the raid on Kronstadt Harbor,Petrograd, Russia. The three books that I have acquired for my research into the particulars of that action have kept me pretty well spellbound. I never realized that the 'Little' war was so viscous. The first book I acquired is The Sea and the Sword,The Baltic,1630-1945 by Oliver Warner, 1965.This is an interesting account into the 315 year history of the very troubled waters of the Baltic and North Sea. For the first time I also see how Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, East Prussia and Finland played in the history of Russia,Germany,France,Denmark,Sweden, Norway and Great Britain.They all, in one fashion or another fought fought each other most of the time right into and beyond 1945. Freeing The Baltic, by Geoffrey Bennett,2002, a re-work of his fathers book, Cowan's War, 1964.This covers the overall movements of fleets and armies for all of the Baltic region. A good read besides, and a clear picture of the political and moral difficulties they faced. Baltic Episode, by Capt. Augustus S. Agar, V.C.,D.S.O., 1963, is a minuet-by-minuet account of the actions of the C.M.B. boats.He skippered C.M.B-4 on all of her missions. The fights these small boats got into are hair raing to say the least. When he tells of one of his CMB's being vaporized by a 14" shell, you get the idea of the real peral they lived in. When WWI ended the Russian military was a mob and Germany's East Army, under Major-General Rudiger von der Goltz, was fully armed and not willing to give up the gains they had made over the course of four years. The Western Germany Army surrendered, the East did not. The British came into the Baltic to protect it's relations with Estonia,Latvia.Lithuania and Finland. The Germany army and the Russians were all set to carve up the four smallest countries for themselves and make Poland disappear off the map. With Britain supplying arms to the smaller countries and handing out military rations, arms and bullets, the conflict turned into an all out war. Russia was split between the White's and the Red's. At one time or another the German army sided with whoever seemed to be winning. It became very confusing because Finland switched sides as well because they were trying to keep the Russians at bay and take on ,or side with, the German army at the same time. Germany had promised to the East Army troops that after they won the war, they would all become landowners in the defeated countries of the east. Officers and regular soldiers had spent years picking out farms, mills,orchards and other forms of industry with the full intent of moving in as soon as the fighting stopped. Russia had been busy placing Red agitators in the small countries to swing the population into the arms of the Bolshevik movement. Britain's involvement tore up the plans of the Germans and Russians. The British navy sent destroyers;battleships;a monitor (HMS Erebus) with 15 guns; a carrier ( HMS Vindictive) with 25 airplanes and four 7.5" guns; seven CMB's,minesweepers and submarines. When they weren't playing politics they shelled the Red and Germany armies into full retreat or obliteration. THe CMB's racked up a remarkable kill record 1. Pamit Azama submarine depot ship- sunk 2.Petropavlosk-HIt by one torpedo 3..Andres IRON 2 ART Joseph Hinds ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From David Gregory Subject Re 1920 "war" and CMB Colors Here is a discussion group on the Russian Civil War and the intervention http//groups.yahoo.com/group/RussianCivilWar/ It is a fascinating period and I have been researching this period for a line of 1/600 naval miniatures. There were actions on the Caspian Sea, Baltic, Lake Onega and many, many river actions. RN coastal forces saw more action here than in the Great War. Here is a link to RN operations on the Caspian http//www.gwpda.org/naval/caspian.htm Ands check out the gunboats and destroyers on this page (run it through Alta Vista Babelfish for translation)as they come with drawings and "histories" with a Bolshevik slant http//mkmagazin.almanacwhf.ru/ships/index.htm On the CMB- here is a link to a drawing of a CMB from a Russian publication. Looks kind of light green-grey http//warships.ru/MK/MK-3/40cmb.jpg Dave G. The PT Dockyard http//ptdockyard.tripod.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From Kdg345@aol.com Subject Re Operation Highjump For those of you interested, I have found copies of the October 1947 issue of National Geographic in some used book stores. If you can't wait, I know the famous Powell's bookstore in Portland, Oregon had copies for about $7.00 a few years ago. They have a web site with their name in it. Ken Groom ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From John Sweetman Subject 1920 Wars with Russia Dear Folks, WWI never really ended except on the Western Front it sort of moved eastwards with a lot of nationalistic "We want it now!" Russia in particular got a hammering from one bunch or another. Poland reemerged as did Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, The Balkans and Austria were also in an up roar. For further reading look at Kosciusko Sqdn & Col. Merrian Cooper in Poland, using Austrian & German equipment to fight the boleshevicks , Dunster Force also in North Russia, there were also expeditions in the south, as well as across in Vladivostok area. An interesting part of almost forgotten History good luck! Best Regards & Seasons greeting to All John Sweetman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From paulship57@hotmail.com Subject U.S.S. NECHES by Paul Lindberg-Fleet OilerModel & BX (#6023503134) A few posts ago someone was remeniscing about the Lindberg _NECHES_ fleet oiler kit.There is one on ebay at the moment, it even shows the original box and that brought back a flood of memories. Lindberg models held a relatively low opinion among my fellow modelers back in the 50s-60s when I first built models. In retrospect it is remarkable just how thoroughly they covered the USN in WWII compared to other companies.I'm sure others on the list can expand on this but just off the top of my head a large Essex class carrier, large Fleet Sub, Very Very Large Fletcher class DD, large Rudderow class DE, large LSD/landing ship dock, LCT,LSU, LSM-R (carronade),LCVP,LST, LCI,PT boat, Coast Guard patrol boat. In smaller scales Fleet Oiler, Cleveland class CA,DE,Q-ship. Come to think of it,50 years later no one else has issued a LSD. In response to a related observation about the electric "motors" that came with Lindberg kits. I assembled perhaps a dozen of them and got about half to at least turn over when current was applied. The real trick was to get one that was powerful enough to run the gear reduction equipment and turn the propellors at something like a useful RPM. I only acheived that once in the large scale PT boat and it shook visibly, perhaps a little like the PT boat in the movie "They were Expendable" that had a bent prop shaft.Hmmmm...realism without the intent... U.S.S. NECHES by Paul Lindberg-Fleet OilerModel & BX Item number 6023503134 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From "Will Noble" Subject Revell/Renwal Polaris Submarine (propeller) Dear Friends I don’t know if you’ve considered these folks - -but they’re the repository of All Things Submarine – I’ve purchased things from them up to and including complete kits, and found them to be quite reliable. They ship worldwide. Link is specifically for replacement kit-propellers http//www.engel-modellbau.de/catalog/index.php?cPath=113_39&osCsid=7a4376c162f42f5ff051b950bb1d3e06 Best, Will Noble Portland, Or ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From "Will Noble" Subject Yamato Movie Don’t know if any of you have been following this – it’s not publicized here in the ‘states, as I don’t believe they have a stateside-release planned for this film yet – but it appears to be an EXCELLENT film, just released in Japan for Japanese audiences regarding the Yamato’s final sortie in 1945. While the linked website is in Japanese, it’s pretty easy to follow – and the trailer is truly awesome! Does anyone know any more about this film? Are they planning to release it to the UK or Australia? Any info about us stateside Yamatoholics? http//www.yamato-movie.jp/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From Ned Barnett Subject My first gift ship It was birthday, not Christmas, but it was the Bismarck by Lindbergh; probably about 1962, but that's just a guess. I do remember the markings (the bow-dazzle scheme) on the box, which is clear in my mind (I can see that box propped up in the basement on my mother's washer/dryer, though I can't imagine why). I also recall that I built my first models on my bed - and I remember what tube glue did to US Navy surplus wool blankets (my dad had been on a cruiser in WW-II, and all I got was a couple of lousy blankets ). Later I moved to a closet in the basement; have no idea what the glue fumes did to me, but I do recall that I really ENJOYED modeling Ah, memory lane ... Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From Ned Barnett Subject Computer thread and ships (in this case, submarines) In '78, I worked for a hospital in South Carolina that had a computer (everybody was excited - this was really brand-new stuff); but it kept going down when the power spiked, to the point where the "the computer is down" PA announcements became a standing joke at the hospital staff Christmas party. The solution? The hospital bought an entire battery set-up from the USN - surplus from a Gato-class submarine - mounted it on the roof and used that massive multi-ton battery as what we now call an uninterruptable power supply. At the time, I was senior Department Manager on the 8th floor (where the computer was), so technically, the computer and the sub battery were under my "supervision" (though as the hospital PR director, I was kept in the dark, so to speak, on the inner workings of the computer). I do recall that it was kept in a temperature-humidity controlled dust-free room, and that all the computer techs wore MD-style white lab coats while on the job. I have no idea what kind of computer it was (other than IBM), but it had all those big spinning tape disks like from a cheesy SF movie. I cared nothing much about that, but thought it was way kewl that I was at least technically in command of a USN submarine (battery). After I failed the eye test at Annapolis (and was turned down for the Naval Reserve for the same reason), I rightly figured that was as close as I was likely to come to a naval "command." Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From Ned Barnett Subject Highjump and that photo X-EN-UserInfo 617daba64f6120a895dda573491a27e6278ac9dff0ae6ed647dfbcdefbfa647c X-EN-AuthUser ned@barnettmarcom.com Sender Ned Barnett From beyondsun@mindspring.com Subject Re Any CV-47/RD-4 "Operation Highjump" photos? >> Navsource shows this picture of Philippine Sea with some twin-engined transports on deck http//www.navsource.org/archives/02/024702.jpg Although her radar fit indicates it is from sometime after 1952. I, too, would be interested to see any Antarctic expedition pics from '48 (or '47?). Especially any in color. << Matty That looks like a straight trans-pac transport job - the aircraft are DC-3 and Beech Model 18 aircraft (both of which have several military designations - the larger ones look like USAF C-47s (the MATS is a dead give-away, I think). With Korea in high-gear in '52, this could be taking them over or bringing them home. But they were just deck cargo - nothing on that ship was likely to fly off. Ned ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume