Subject: SMML VOL 3034 Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:24:21 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Renwal 1/200 Ethan Allen Submarine kit 2 Re Museum Ships 3 Re Varnish for 1/350 King George V 4 Re Looking for a book (Rodney & Nelson) 5 Modeler's vacu-form 6 USS Iowa 7 Re USS Oklahoma Remembered 8 Re Revell Small RC PT 9 Museum Ships - and tourists and viability 10 Aurora/Polar Lights Seaview 11 Re Museum Ships 12 RN finish 13 Motor Vessel "Christmas Seal" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From beyondsun@mindspring.com Subject Re Renwal 1/200 Ethan Allen Submarine kit HA - Rick, I can see where you're going with this thread! LOL What-all would you (and all you other good folks) ideally like to see in a resin accurization kit for the old Renwal 1/200 SSBN? (And have a Happy New Year!) Cheers, Matty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject Re Museum Ships I agree that Stockton is not the optimum place for the Iowa, even though it would be closer and more convenient to me than San Francisco or another destination. But better there than to razor blades, and Stockton is offering a very nice setting and lots of infrastructure for the ship, which is way more than San Francisco is offering - mainly contempt. Shirley, I would have to disagree with the location of the Hornet. It is very hard to find, even for this Bay Area native who had been to Alameda NAS a couple of times before it closed - I always seem to get turned around in Oakland, trying to find the tube entrance. Maybe I am just dense, but the ship could be a lot easier to find (and more successful) if it were near a tourist destination, which Alameda is assuredly not. I cite the USS Midway as an example of a far more thought out location for what these ships need to become, a tourist attraction. Hornet is visited by those who specifically seek her out, and I suspect Midway's looming presence on the San Diego waterfront, coupled with logical naval setting (the active carriers are just across the bay), contributes to her financial health. I have no idea just how good or bad the management of the carrier is, but they seem to be aggressive in promoting her with special events, World War II theme dances, and other revenue streams. I think she is doomed by her location however - when she needs dry docking, for example, how do they intend to accomplish that? I agree the North Carolina's location is not as easy to find as the Midway's, but she has a rich history and is in her namesake state, which has to help. Years ago they used to put on a nice living history show that was well attended - I saw it once and found it highly entertaining. She is in full view of a large city (almost 100,000), and just off the Interstate, with good signage. All these things are key, in my opinion. My hope is that the Iowa finds a good home - maybe on the other size of the Navy Pier from the Midway might work - she will probably seem a bit of film work in that location too, which can be lucrative - the movie "Under Siege" did quite a bit for the Alabama as I recall. Or perhaps some other city on the west coast that wants and will welcome her. As long as she is preserved in a dignified manner, that is all that matters. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Warship Models Underway - Learn about large scale, radio control warship models www.warshipmodelsunderway.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Michael D'Silva" Subject Re Varnish for 1/350 King George V >>Do I varnish a Royal Navy WW2 Battleship Matt, Satin or even Gloss (doubting that they liked their ships to literally shine though).<< Hi Matt, You should be aiming for a matt (flat) finish. Of course, for decaling purposes, the areas where decals are to be applied should be either gloss or satin (anything but matt). After applying all decals, it should then be restored to, or finished with, a clear matt coat. This also seals in and protects the decals. Another variable you may wish to consider is scale effect. Some modellers choose to tone down the colours to make it look more realistic (as the full-sized subject would appear when viewed from such a distance). Hope you enjoy building the King George V, Michael J. D'Silva Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Michael D'Silva" Subject Re Looking for a book (Rodney & Nelson) Hi Mark, I understand that you are searching for the Monografie title for these ships. However, do you own or have you considered Man O' War 3 - Battleships Rodney & Nelson by Alan Raven & John Roberts? Although long out of print, this is an excellent reference and is available via www.abebooks.com. Prices start from around US $35. The book contains a good selection of photographs, history, modifications, colour profiles with painting guides (1942 & 1943), and drawings (Rodney 1942 & Nelson 1945). Michael J. D'Silva Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Bruce Thomas" Subject Modeler's vacu-form Our club has a homebrew vac former. The heating elements are fashioned from replacement electric oven elements (2), the bed is made from a somewhat thick bed of masonite with holes drilled. The vacuum bed beneath is also made of masonite with a fitting that accepts the hose from a shop vacuum. Its crude, but works. The working bed appears to be about 2 feet square. Its in our clubhouse. I’ll see it next month during the monthly meeting. I’ll see about snapping some photos if you’re interested. Bruce Thomas http//ssmana.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Will Noble" Subject USS Iowa Folks I feel I have to weigh-in on this one, not that I've got any more or less to say, but that my perspective is a bit unique. The statement below (I'm hoping it was tongue-in-cheek) regarding "....the best surest way to preserve a ship for all time is to cut it up and mount the pieces on a board...." calls to mind the ORIGINAL American battleship, the USS Oregon. It's far too late to do anything for Oregon. Her history is well known - from Sampson's fleet at Santiago Bay to an (unneeded!) ammunition hulk in Guam; the pieces-parts are scattered to hell-and-gone. Some examples 1. Deck gun; steam engine; one builder's model - Columbia River Maritime Museum; Astoria, Oregon 2. Ship's Clock - lobby of Governor Hotel; Portland, Oregon. 3. Punchbowl from officer's mess - Oregon Historical Society (Note They trot this out for formal affairs. It's still used). 4. Funnels and anchors - Albers' Mill Park; Portland, Oregon 5. Mainmast -- Tom McCall Waterfront Park; Portland, Oregon (Note This is probably the most recognized item; it's routinely caught on film during the Rose Parade, as it's downtown). 6. Upper mainmast -- In the back yard of an amateur author in Lake Oswego, Oregon (He was the fellow who wrote the self-published book, "McKinley's Bulldog". I hope you can see what I mean. We've done so very little to preserve our nation's maritime heritage that, in spite of the fact that there are FOUR Iowa-class battleships, saving all four is not out of line. Give us at least one of them out west here so we can take our kids and grandkids and let them see some of what made their indulgence in videogames and rap music possible..... Will Noble Portland, OR ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From THEGAVEL@aol.com Subject Re USS Oklahoma Remembered Regards John Snyder's comments >> The item may have been stricken based on the Foundation's perceived or real ability to raise the necessary funds. << This question would have been normally addressed before the provision was inserted in the bill, but it is possible that over the months and months that the house version waited for the Senate to take it up some question arose about the Foundation. I would note that Congress has authorized numerous memorials without any consideration for funding, availability of land, other objections, so this remains to me at least a strange occurrence. "It may have also had objections from the National Park Service, who would be tasked with its administration and maintenance, as I suspect the bill did NOT provide for any additional NPS funding or staffing." The authorization bills do not provide any funding for other than military construction, all funding comes from the appropriations bills. I think that the National Park Service is part of the Department of the Interior and this would probably be too small to generate a separate line item. I don't think NPS has enough influence with congress to block a provision, but all things are possible. John Gavel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Donsrcships@wmconnect.com Subject Re Revell Small RC PT HELLO all I hope all of you had a nice Christmas. and I wishing you a grate new year I hope and wish for good for all of you and your familys around the world . Well, on that Revel model yes it can done in RC I have done it. but sorry I dont have any pictures of the one I did many years ago but it did make a nice RC small boat . YOU can use a set of small motors for dual or even single. Just takes time and a little thinking. Go to model war ship and look up my name Don MacDonald both of my small coast guard Patrol cutters are on that sight. with information on what I did and what I use. That may help a little. Both boats were done by using that well all most that same hull. But mind were just a little bigger, BUT I have done it with that small hull just have to keep an eye on weight but I would use mini servos and speed control and receiver. They will make a nice RC set up. On deck set up I will leave that up to you. I cant answer that one but as many years I had built RC and none RC ships you can do any thing you want but you may have to do some reseach on what you want to do and how to do and what material you may want to use. Now there are many kits you can kit bash to what you want and i have done my share through the years. I know you will have a nice set up when your are done. So have fun. If you dont mind and have the time Please Keep me posted I would like to see it when you get it done and If I can answer any questions get in touch. THERE ARE MANY FINE SHIP BUILDERS ON THIS BOARD THAT WOULD BE WILLING TO ANWER ANY QUESTIONS. That has help me in the pass and I have sure enjoyed learing alot from all of them. Thanks to all of you ,. Now it is time for me to help others as well. SO yes it can be done just have to watch out for rough water ;-) Have a grate week . DON YOU OLD Portland Rustbucket. ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "Reid, John (AFIT)" Subject Museum Ships - and tourists and viability Comment has been made that USS Intrepid is in an obvious location in NY harbour, and that enough non-specially interested people need to go through the turnstiles to make any ship viable to be preserved. Some comments. a. Having a range of preserved prototypes is important for modellers. I have studied this stuff for a long time but I never understood an Admiralty 3-drum boiler until I saw a real one excellently displayed aboard HMS Belfast in the Pool of London. Similarly, I suspect that the superstructure shapes of current stealth designs will baffle modellers of the second half of the 21st century if they have only ever seen drawings and photos. OK, professional modellers will always triumph, but for the other 99% of us, there is nothing to beat walking around the real thing. b. Intrepid certainly pulls in the tourists, which is good – but last time I was there (about 03) I thought the standards of the displays, and of available material in the shop, had been dumbed down from when I had been there in the mid-90s. Seems to me that a preserved ship needs to keep the modellers and ship-geeks happy *as well as* the punters. Carriers are lucky because they can also pull aircraft-geeks through the turnstiles, whereas other classes cannot. But as Shirley Sachsen pointed out, a patron with deep pockets for hard times seems to be an essential ingredient, or of course public ongoing funding through National Parks etc. c. Do we really need a *fourth* Iowa-class preserved anywhere? Look at the history of the preserved-trains movement in the UK – slow start, rapid growth, boom, retrenchment leading to merely deferred destruction of a lot of the artefact assets. If the goal of the warship preservation movement is long-term preservation, then it seems obvious that the collection policy has to be “few but the best” simply because the maintenance costs are so high and there is a limited pool of volunteers. From that point of view, Missouri is surely worth keeping forever because of her historic associations (pity not to have restored her to something like a 1945 fit, though), and maybe one other class member in a different config e.g. 1990s and on the other coast. To me, more than that seems unsustainable in the very long run. Notice that Togo’s flagship Mikuma always was the only preserved ship from that war, and she is still alive and well in Yokosuka (though she had a hard time from 1946 to the late 60s). d. I would love to see the ship-preservation enthusiasts start looking at what should be saved from more recent building campaigns. USS Salem has featured in several posts on SMML, as an example of the immediate post-war generation up to Vietnam – I wonder how her management team and business plan are going? What about a Spruance or FFG-9 or maybe USS Vincennes, historic albeit for unfortunate reasons? It seems to me that the trick is to get a consensus quickly enough so that there is a choice of hulls rather than contending for the last available whatever of its era. (From that point of view the resurrection of the fast battleships was providential but will not recur for other classes – see posts about the difficulty of using preserved vessels as accommodation.) e. Mainly to Shane/Lorna Since the subject of prototype preservation seems to have some interest in SMML, I wonder if there could be another pointer-set added to the website (under Reference), sorted geographically, which gives location details of preserved vessels and interesting museums (or pointers to their own sites if they exist)? There are already lots of posted photos, but I have noticed several threads starting with a post along the lines “I am visiting place-X, what is there to see?” John Reid Rome PS Italy has so much art and archaeology history that the technology-museum and ship preservation scene gets trivial attention and money. But Enrico Toti, a 50s submarine, was road-hauled to Milan for the technology museum there, which is definitely worth seeing if you are coming to Italy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From Rob & Rose Brown Subject Aurora/Polar Lights Seaview Does anyone out there have a copy of the instructions for the Polar Lights Seaview? A scan or photocopy will do, my very old Aurora Seaview is missing a few bits, time to try and figure out which ones and how to scratchbuild them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From "John Snyder" Subject Re Museum Ships >>Alameda is not the backwater you contend. it may be a bit difficult to get to from SF, but that's thanks to Caltrans. << Uh, and just how is this a Caltrans issue? Alameda is an island, accessible by tube under the Oakland estuary, by bridge over the estuary, and by boat, and the former naval base is on the westernmost side. The tubes were built by the cities and only later taken into the state highway system; same for the bridges. Having worked for Caltrans for 21 years, I don't recall any particular pressure from either Oakland OR Alameda to improve vehicular access. It was certainly never on the State Transportation Improvement Plan. If it SHOULD have been, well, that's the job of the State Transportation Commission--a politically appointed body (get the picture?). >> And if you think Alameda is hard to get to, what about Stockton where they want to put IA? talk about 'tourist destination'. not. << While I won't dispute that Stockton is not too high on the list of tourist destinations, it IS accessible by 70-mph Interstate 5 and 65-mph Highway 99, plus crosstown freeways, and the Port of Stockton is only a stone's throw from the freeway and is quite accessible--much more so than Alameda. Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From Iain Wyllie Subject RN finish Hi Matt, To look correct in 1/350 scale use matt or matt with just a hint of satin, but no more. Like the rest of the model the finish has scale too and one of the worst sights is a scale model with too high a shine - even if the original was to be painted ultra high gloss I would use satin for realism. Looked at up close the paint, when applied, had a definite semi gloss finish but didn't take long to weather to almost matt when viewed from a distance. Don't forget, the distance from which you view the model is a scale 350 times as far away, i.e. if you look at it with your eye one foot away, that is a scale 350 feet - nearly 120 yards! And it wasn't so much that battleships are "pretty large" as that clipper ships were pretty small - bear in mind that the Cutty Sark at 212' was just over half the length of a Gearing Class destroyer and that puts things in perspective. The clippers were very fine lined and carried a small cargo but the speed and the high value of the cargo made them just about financially viable; they were more of a prestige corporate statement by their owners,well built, had large crews relative to their size so that they could be worked hard and they grabbed the headlines - the Concordes of their day! Regards, Iain Wyllie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From "Harold Stockton" Subject Motor Vessel "Christmas Seal" I just came across mention of the M.V. "Christmas Seal" which was a US naval boat purchased by the Newfoundland anti-TB league in 1947, and fitted with mobile x-ray equipment. Due to a lack of roads, a major portion of the population could not reach the screening centres, so this floating TB clinic came to them. This vessel can be seen at http//www.lung.ca/tb/tbhistory/timeline/travelling_clinics.html http//archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-75-883-5332/science_technology/tuberculosis/clip3 http//archives.cbc.ca/400d.asp?id=1-75-883-5332&wm6=1 http//www.nf.lung.ca/troake.html http//www.nald.ca/CLR/social/book5/p59.htm On September 10, 1947, the Newfoundland Tuberculosis Association reached an agreement with the U.S. Government to purchase a "crash" boat from the Argentina Naval Base. In 1947, the boat was bought from the US government for $14,500. She had been used at the Argentia Naval Base in Newfoundland. The boat was 111 feet long and 104 tons, and this would make her an old WW-I type as the photographs of her show hull portholes and I do not remember them being present on the later versions. She was outfitted with x-ray machines and other medical equipment. The sale of Christmas Seals (colourful stamps) was one way the Newfoundland TB Association raised money. The boat was given the new name the M.V. Christmas Seal. For the next 23 years she travelled around Newfoundland providing free x-rays and other medical services for the people of Newfoundland. And, this would make an interesting conversion for a different but still important role for an old veteran. Any others out there know about this vessel? Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume