Subject: SMML VOL 3042 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 23:50:37 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Regulus missile discussion and lost nuclear weapons 2 Re HMS AJAX & Battle of Crete 3 Re Regulus missile discussion and lost nuclear weapons 4 Re Ajax/Battle of Crete CORRECTION 5 Re Renwal Polaris 6 Re Regulus missile discussion and lost nuclear weapons 7 Re HMS Ajax and the Battle of Crete 8 USS Arizona - small boats -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 Re HMS AJAX & Battle of Crete ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Harold Stockton" Subject Re Regulus missile discussion and lost nuclear weapons Paul Giltz wrote >> As a contest, "What was the first thought that went through the mind of the pilot or armament chief when the bomb went through the bomb-bay doors"? ( Franklyn, I know that you are up for this...) Contest entries should probably be sent off-line.... << I can tell you right now that the entire crew was under lock-down when the aircraft landed, as well as the armorers who loaded the bomb on board the aircraft before it took off. Nukes, even small ones are generally NEVER taken lightly when they are lost, as was the massive recovery of those that were lost off the Azores from that B-52. But concerning what the A/C and pilot said to each other? How about "Oh, . .. shi . . ." Harold Stockton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Dan or Connie Black" Subject Re HMS AJAX & Battle of Crete Ajax had lost her catapult and seaplane by the time of her action vs. Bartolomeo Colleoni. The ship also had been fitted with tripod fore and after masts, type 279 radars, and a quad pom-pom in place of the landed catapult. However, the ship's crane was retained for boat handling. Several other modifications were made to the ship, including removal of the bridge deck "wings", additional 20mm unshielded Oerlikons and the addition of a small platform deck at the rear of the bridge. This deck was surrounded on three sides by a high, splinter-matted bandstand, and was located between the rear bulkheads of the bridge and the foremast. As to painting, I am uncertain but perhaps someone will be able to provide this. Hope this helps! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Howard Brower Subject Re Regulus missile discussion and lost nuclear weapons Paul Interesting on your lost nuclear weapons. But for your information, Albuquerque is not the capital of New Mexico, Santa Fe is and is about 50 milesf from where the incident took place. The weapon actually dropped on the Sandia Military Reservation, now Kirtland Air Force Base. The clean-up took quite awhile but all of the missing atomic components were recovered as was most of the orginal bomb components. As to the Regulus missile, as far as I can remember (I was Freedom of information officer for the Field Command, Defense Nuclear Agency, Kirtland Air Force Base in the early 90's) they were never flown with nuclear weapons on board. I have nevered found any "Broken Arrow" information on the incident you mentioned. Broken Arrow is the code for an atomic weapon incident. You can write the Field Command Defense Nuclear Agency, which has been renamed Weapons Threat Agency, 1680 Texas Ave, Kirtland AFB, New Mexico and request a Freedom of information request for that incident, but make sure that the request is specific in nature not general. They need dates, what happened as far as you know, and what you want. You should get an answer in about a month or so. There is a specific time limit in which they have to answer your question, but since it changes for time to time by act of congress I don't know what it is now. As far as other incidents go they can also provide information them also as they have an extensive archive of neculear weapons information, unless it has been moved and then they will tell you where you can request it. This is a very interesting field of discussion as far as naval matters go, I remember the Cuban Missile Crises as I was a marine on board a Carrier in the Med at the time and remember seeing Nuclear armed aircraft being manned around the clock for several days. Had they actually launched I don't think any of the crews would have returned as the aircraft were of the old piston engine types and probably cound not have gotten back. Howard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "Dan or Connie Black" Subject Re Ajax/Battle of Crete CORRECTION Whoops! It was, of course, HMAS Sydney that did battle with Bartolomeo Colleoni, not Ajax! My apologies, everyone (That's what I get for writing while tired)! It was at the end of April 1941 that Ajax participated in evacuating some of the last troops from Greece, and was later involved with the actions off Crete, suffering some damage from German aerial bombs on May 21. It is known from photographs that Ajax did wear a "dazzle" pattern during her Mediterranean service. A good portside view of this is available at http//www.world-war.co.uk/picdb.php3?ship=ajax RNFD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From ives100@aol.com Subject Re Renwal Polaris From David Wells >> But this seems to me to be an apples-to-oranges comparison. The Pulaski was a Lafayette class (425') and the Ratcliffe kit and YMW Simon Bolivar kit are meant to portray that class. The Renwal kit, despite often being sold as the Andrew Jackson, represents an Ethan Allen class (410') sub. I don't know if the difference in the taper of the forward hull is due to the different lengths or not. The few drawings I have of the EA class are inadequate. IIRC, even Ken Hart's article on the Renwal 608 sub kit assumed that it was the Andrew Jackson. (I went looking for it, but I have mis-filed it somewhere) Until someone shows me a reliable diagram of an Ethan Allen, I don't think I can state that Renwal got it wrong. << The extra 15 feet went into lengthening the after machinery spaces on the later boats (to improve quieting). The design made no changes in the bow area. The gradual bow taper can be seen in drydock, launch & building shots of the class http//www.navsource.org/archives/08/0861104.jpg http//www.navsource.org/archives/08/0861105.jpg http//www.navsource.org/archives/08/0861008.jpg http//www.navsource.org/archives/08/0861005.jpg http//www.navsource.org/archives/08/0861006.jpg The nosecone is more an elliptical shape than hemispherical, as found on the Renwal kit. Here's a shot of the Jackson's bow that illustrates the shape of all the Ethan Allen & Lafayette class boats http//www.navsource.org/archives/08/0861908.jpg Here's another waterline shot that nicely illustrates the taper forward of the sail http//www.navsource.org/archives/08/0861903.jpg Ken Hart did do his as a Lafayette (The Jackson), which is the 425 foot length model. As he notes, it's OK but not great as an accurate model, and he also mentions that he didn't put too much effort into the model (due to the starting material being a Renwal kit). Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Jerry Slagle" Subject Re Regulus missile discussion and lost nuclear weapons From "Paul Giltz" >> There are a surprisingly/ disturbingly large number of nuclear incidents, some involving ships. How many of you out there know that an A4 Skyhawk with a nuclear payload rolled off the deck of an American carrier and was lost off the coast of Vietnam/China during the Gulf of Tonkin crisis? (another possible Tom Clancy book) << Hi Paul, I would like to clarify the below info, since some of your detail is a bid misleading. The incident you make reference to occurred in December of 1965, not at or during the Gulf of Tokin Incident. That particular incident was in August 64. The location was not Vietnam/China, but off Okinawa, while the vessel was heading to Japan for upkeep and R&R after completing a tour on the line at Dixie/Yankee Station. It was weapon loading exercise where the plane was loaded with the device, pushed out to the elevator so it could be taken up to the flight deck for a simulated launch. The brakes to A4 were not applied, either due to mechanical or pilot inability (heart attack or??). The ship involved was one of the participants in the Gulf of Tokin. Hope this helps, Jerry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Allan and Crystal Plumb" Subject Re HMS Ajax and the Battle of Crete >> During the battle of Crete 21/22 May 1941 Royal Navy cruiser HMS AJAX took part. Is there anyone out there who would know if at the time of this event wether AJAX still had the crane and seaplane fitted or was this removed after during modifications/refit etc. << Hmm, indications are cloudy. Raven/Roberts British Cruisers say "Mid 1941, catapult replaced by quadruple pompom". So, "maybe". What's "mid"? If I had to guess I'd suspect after. Just a guess. Allan Plumb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From arne.rolstad@aureus.no Subject USS Arizona - small boats Calling all Arizona Experts! There seems to be a true myriad of colors to be found in pictures of Arizona-models, regarding her small boats. Guess the bigger ones were of "Admirals barge"-type with at least some wooden planking. Would all of them have the same overall 5D inside and out and did they a painted bootstripe...etc? Boats of the Banner kit seems to have some kind of planking to the bottoms of the lager ones and also some "engine-housing" on the smaller ones. Wouls this be overalldark grey as well? Med vennlig hilsen / Best regards Arne Rolstad ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "John Snyder" Subject Re HMS AJAX & Battle of Crete Hi Norman, I can't help with the first question, but her camouflage pattern (port and starboard) as well as details and colours are to be found in Royal Navy Camouflage V.1 and V.4 from WR Press, available from us (and others). Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume