Subject: SMML VOL 3046 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:49:14 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 USS Indianola 2 Re CG Commissioning pennant 3 Re Coast Guard ensign flown from USN vessels 4 Re Kotlin SAM destroyers 5 Re CG Commissioning pennant 6 Update on USN wood covered decks 7 Re Stars at sea 8 Re HMS TIGER/BLAKE Helicopter/Cruisers conversion 9 Re HMS TIGER/BLAKE Helicopter/Cruisers conversion 10 Re Stars at Night 11 Re Age of Sail and other questions 12 Re Stars at night 13 Glencoe Yacht Corsair II at good price 14 Re Bomb oops! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 Books FS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Iscandar66@aol.com Subject USS Indianola By any chance, does anyone her know the origin of the naming of the US Civil War ironclad USS Indianola? I'm not a civil war ship buff, but a friend referred me to the US Navy History Center illustration page owing to my interest in the former port city (now ghost town) of Indianola, Texas. He assumed the ship was named in honor of the Texas city because it was a major gulf coast port at the time of the Civil War. That struck me as iffy given Texas was part of the Confederacy at the time the ship was commissioned. Also, there were two other cities (albeit smaller) named Indianola at the time (in Iowa and Nebraska). Neither USN History Center page nor the official DANFS history page at Hazegray.org though gives the origin of the name. Any ideas? Derek "Deke" Wakefield ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From taschoene@earthlink.net Subject Re CG Commissioning pennant From >> Now a question for the fans of the US Navy. When (and why) is the Coast Guard ensign flown from a U S naval vessel? << When an embarked Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detatchment (a LEDET) is boarding a suspect vessel, the Navy ship falls under Coast Guard tactical control and the Coast Guard ensign is flown. Thomas Schoene ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From LymanJohnF@aol.com Subject Re Coast Guard ensign flown from USN vessels In the category of "been there, done that" when a USN warship is carrying a Puddle Pirate law enforcement team, and they are engaged in law enforcement ops (like busting drug boats in the Caribbean), the CG ensign is flown from a yardarm, in addition to the national ensign at the gaff (not instead of). As a related matter of interest, the members of the CG LET are supposed to be kept insulated from any USN-generated or intercepted intel about the subjects of the operations - when we had our daily weather and intel briefs while on counter-drug ops, the CG guys would be present for the weather-guesser part of the brief, but would then leave the wardroom before the intel/ops portion. From the unofficial side of things, during my tour in destroyer KINKAID we had a Coast Guard lieutenant on an "exchange tour" assigned as our Navigator/Admin Officer for 18 months. Our CO liked to have all the officers, even department heads, cycle through bridge duties from time to time, and when our CG LT had the deck, the CG ensign was flown. John F. Lyman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From david@dhathaway.freeserve.co.uk Subject Re Kotlin SAM destroyers My thanks to the two individuals who contacted me directly with some drawings and photos for Kotlin SAM class destroyers following my request to SMML. Unfortunately my ISP's SPAM filter was working overtime and has deleted and stopped me seeing the actual SMML digest my request appeared in. If anyone else sent a reply to the list - could they send a copy to me directly? This is not the first time this has happened to me - my ISP's SPAM filter is usually ok but sometimes triggered by odd phrases and about 1 in 10 SMML digests go missing -( Many thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From robert mcclain Subject Re CG Commissioning pennant I would say the CG ensign is flown from USN vessels,for one of two reasons, 1.) When the ship is crewed and commanded by Coast Guard crews,or 2.) when a Coast Guard detachment is aboard to give a USN vessel a law enforcement mission,e.g. chasing down drug runners. Robert McClain ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From SteveWiper@aol.com Subject Update on USN wood covered decks After a conversation with Keith Bender, I have a little more information on the wood decks of USN warships. Keith has a plank off of USS Massachusetts BB-59, one of the "Fast Battleships", which he was present when it was removed some years ago. It came from forward of the aft expansion joint and measured 5 in. in width. There is a good chance this is from the original deck covering, so this only makes things more complicated. I have learned in my years of doing research that nothing is written in stone when it comes to ship construction. Even if a document has stated that the decking shall be done a specific size, pattern, etc., that does not mean that any particular shipyard will abide by that decree. That would also explain why even sisterships are not identical. This just shows that the search for information is a long a tedious hunt that sometimes never ends. Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From Bill Michaels Subject Re Stars at sea From defiant@dslextreme.com >> This maybe not quite so model related, but firstly wanted to say that I am astounded by the depth of knowledge that people have here. And when there is a lack of knowledge few here seem to rest on that! Anyway, have a few question for those who truly have plied the great oceans and seas. While building the Cutty Sark and reading into the larger-than-life Lord Nelson who seems to be almost unreal, I had another thought that combined my other interest of Astronomy, at sea in a dead calm at night with no clouds, how far down to the horizon would the stars go? In a dead calm the stars will reflect off th sky? And if the stars can reach down to the horizon (I am assuming no land mass in sight) then would the impression lead you to feel like you're in outer space? I can visualize it very well, just not sure how accurate the visualization is. << I was always wowed by the number of stars you can see on a clear night at sea, where there's no light polution at all. As a cadet on the USCGC Eagle, learning celestial navigation, I discovered that it was easier to take star sights in the morning. The problem was at sundown, by the time enough stars were out so that you could identify the stars you wanted, the horizon was no longer discernible. In the mornign, you could pick out yoru stars ahead of time, and then jsut wait for the hoizon to be visible..... Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From David Wells Subject Re HMS TIGER/BLAKE Helicopter/Cruisers conversion "Gary Mansfield" wrote >> Having ordered the Airfix HMS Tiger/Daring cruiser kit from WEM and their PE, does anybody known of any mods out there in SMML land to convert the Cruiser to Helicopter/Command version. I am obtaining plans and good photographs. I remember the Airfix magazine did a article on HMS Tiger but I cannot remember if it was this version. << I have a photocopy of the article. It's from the March 1978 issue, pg 384-387. It's primarily concerned with making "Colony" class light cruisers, but it has about 3 paragraphs of text on the helo conversion, and a small drawing of the helo pad and hangars. It is less than I would have liked, but as far as I know, it is all there is. "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http//home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "Connor, Michael" Subject Re HMS TIGER/BLAKE Helicopter/Cruisers conversion Hi All, especially Gary Mansfield, Try Airfix Magazine April 1970. You can often get them on ebay. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From John Renning Subject Re Stars at Night In the book "200,000 Miles Aboard the Destroyer Cotten," by C. Snelling Robinson, an account of his experiences in WWII as an ensign on that ship, he has a brief page and a half description the night skies from a darkened ship at sea. Quoting him "The sky in such circumstances can create a powerful effect, and it becomes clear why the stars and the constellations were such major cultural factors in earlier times. When it comes to viewing the nighttime glories of the heavens, our own generations are, in the main, sadly deprived." John Renning ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From defiant@dslextreme.com Subject Re Age of Sail and other questions From Ken >> As a sticks and string guy, I would say that the Caldercraft kits in the Nelson's Navy line represent a superbly detailed look at a specific era. The quality of the kits and materials are very high, the plans are very good, but to me they assume a good deal of wooden modelling experience. But, you won't find a better line of product if you are taken by that period. I think the Model Shipways kits from Model Expo are, in most cases, of clearly equal quality and have better plans and instructions, drawing on renowned experts like Lankford and Ronnberg. See especially the Armed Virginia Sloop (now being detailed in a series in Ships in Scale), the New Bedford Whaleboat (a real killer disguised as a simple kit) and the C.W. Morgan as examples. They are, perhaps, a better value. Many equally good things are said about the line from Blue Jacket Ship Crafters; a solid hull can certainly speed you to a quality completion. Dr. Al Ross is closely involved with Blue Jacket. Unfortunately, my stash is so full of Model Shipways and Caldercraft boxes waiting their turn that I have not been able to partake of Blue Jacket's offerings << Thanks so much for the information! I'm liking the look and the level perhaps of HMS Sherbourne, RN Cutter, but I have certainly been checking out all the resources you mentioned! Matt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From defiant@dslextreme.com Subject Re Stars at night From >> Hum, oddly enough I shared an interest in astronomy with my 17 years Naval service, which may partly account for my nickname (Zanussi) Normally you lose the stars close to the "event horizon" of the sea due to haze, the vapour rich atmosphere layer over the sea, it causes a gradual fading similar to that of light pollution on land, but not as bad. However in cold waters such as the Barents Sea you can get a very sharp cutoff between land and sky that gives the startling impression of being in the middle of a snow globe floating in space, the closest experience I have had to that is being in a Planetarium laser show. << Now thats a wonderful visual! >> I have to say that even in the calmest deep waters I have never seen the starfield reflected other than as a vague shimmer. However my Sea Daddy claimed if you can see stars in the sea then you are about to smack into an iceberg, don't know, never been that close to one. << Ouch! Not so good then. >> One thing about being at sea at night no one can forget who has seen it is the Northern (or southern) Lights, which can hang like vast coloured sheets of silk billowing slowly in the solar winds, it makes you wish you were a painter and could capture it. << Even then it would not be well captured...Going to have add to a list of things to see >> But generally astronomy and sea life do not go together, unless you can rush to a gyro stabilised telescope and a really big and stable ship to sit it on. I tried strapping mine to various weapon directors on the frigates I served on, which was usually good enough for general sighting and hand plotting, but I never managed to get any photo work, too much lag in the mechanical gears, I usually ended up lugging it up the nearest mountain whenever we put into port, dockyards and harbours have to be the worst for light pollution, and all those blasted cranes! << That reminds of the docu-film 'Longitude', with that rather unwieldy chair! Thanks so much for taking the time to write and share your experiences! Matt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From "Bradford J. Chaucer" Subject Glencoe Yacht Corsair II at good price I just found the Glencoe reissue of the Morgan Yacht at $15.99 plus shipping ($5 by UPS to me) on the TitanicHistorical Society.ORG website http//secured.titanichistoricalsociety.org/shop/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jqhopoj8 Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From "Allen Stevens" Subject Re Bomb oops! Picking this one up late, my Dad, who served in the RAF for 30 years started his career on the early V Bombers(the Valiant) and he always swore that they dropped a nuke when loading, he also swore that his Flight Seargant was seen standing by with his fingers in his ears (my Dad by the way admits to having hit the deck!) Also late on this one re US Battleship conversions - why not build a monitor it worked very well in the RN during two wars Marshall Soult et al were armed with ex battleship twin 15" turrets and in the first war the RN had a monitor with an 18" gun (or was that one of the Furious triplets not sure?) the idea worked well and provided close in fire support without the risk to a Battleshipo close inshore. The advantage of having heavy battleship quality firepower supporting a landing cannot be overstated my grandfather went ashore on D day and one of his most abiding memories is of the 15" shells going overhead like steam trains he also had some photos (now sadly lost) that he showed to me as a child showing the sort of craters a 15" shell could make, the effect on the enemy must be terrifying. The only if in this discussion is that of barrel life how many rounds have the existing barrels got left in them? it would take a mountain of expense to build a 16" gun production line again if indeed the experience exists anymore. Happy new year to all Allen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Derek Frost Subject Books FS FS. Postage extra. DESTROYERS OF THE SOKOL CLASS. Russian review. Prof. Ill. with rareb/w photos + centre-fold with top/side view scale drawings. Sc. 32 pp. Russian text. New. $4.00 GERMAN NAVAL ARTILLERY. detailed review of WW2 German Naval guns. Prof. Ill. with high quality b/w contemporary photos. plus 25 pages of full color computer generated drawings of gun turrets, guns & ammunition. B/w scale drawings. Sc. 112 pp. Polish/English text. NEW. $16.00 GRAF ZEPPERLIN. By Siegfried Breyer. 2004. highly detailed review of the uncompleted WW2 German aircraft carrier. Prof. Ill. with contemporary b/w photos. Loaded with b/w scale drawings. 17 pp with computer generated drawings of close-up detail & equipment. 6 large sheets (loose-leaf) of full color computer generated profiles ill. large scale drawings of upper decks weapons & equipment, b/w scale plans. Sc. 112 pp. Polish/English text. NEW. $20.00US ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume