Subject: SMML VOL 3051 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:46:38 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Scorpion Sub propeller 2 Re RFA AND MERCHANT SHIPS IN THE FALKLANDS CAMPAIGN 3 Cuban Crises 4 RN Sea Slug missiles 5 Re gear box set ups 6 Re Prop driven planes in the Med during Cuban Missle Crisis 7 Help please 8 Re MERCHANT AND RFA SHIPS IN THE FALKLANDS WAR 9 Re Gear box setups ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Ives100@aol.com Subject Scorpion Sub propeller A while back we were discussing whether USS Scorpion had the 5 broad bladed propeller or the 7 bladed J-type screw at her time of loss. I just finished a new book on the loss of the Scorpion ("Silent Steel" by Stephen Johnson) which confirms that she was equipped with the & blade J screw ( in a 1965 overhaul). There is a poignant photo of the screw partially buried in the seabed with three of the blades visible, and the propeller is discussed (there was a minor nick and the sub had vibration problems, which turned out not related to the nick). The propeller is specifically described as a 7-bladed propeller with scimitar-like blades. BTW, for you submarine fans, this book is outstanding! It is very carefully researched and extensive references are provided in a bibliography. With the publication of John Craven's "Silent War" and Sontag & Drew's "Blind Man's Bluff" it has become a "fact" that Scorpion suffered from some sort of Mk 37 torpedo accident. Johnson interviews former crewmembers and painstakingly reexamines the Court of Inquiry testimony. While in the end, it is not possible to say exactly what caused the loss, it is clear from this book that the loss remains largely unexplained. Scorpion was a "tired boat", and had been subjected to an experimental "minimalist" overhaul just before her loss, and still had not been through the SubSafe modifications that were a result of the Thresher loss in 1963. The strong argument is made from the evidence that the Scorpion sank to well below its 700 ft test depth (possibly 1400+ feet), and the hull deformed and a juncture failed at the point where the cylindrical hull narrowed more sharply to a cone shape, a structural weak point in the hull. This failure drove the stern of the Scorpion forward some 50 feet, "telescoping" it inside of the engineering spaces. Pictures of the wreckage clearly show this effect. The resulting "water hammer" of pressure ruptured the operations compartment completely, and blew the bow section ahead of frame 22 off. In addition, another of the conclusions is that there is no evidence for any kind of torpedo explosion or detonation. What is not at all clear is the exact circumstances or failures would allow Scorpion to grossly exceed test depth. And that remains a mystery to this day.... Very well done, and the author spent over 15 years researching and speaking to almost everyone he could find, including one crewman who was transferred onto a tug (family emergency due to an infant death) just a few short days before Scorpion was lost. An outstanding read for those interested, and you will learn quite a bit about submarine operations and equipment in the process. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From HGYL@aol.com Subject Re RFA AND MERCHANT SHIPS IN THE FALKLANDS CAMPAIGN Someone asked where to find drawings of merchant and Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships which participated in the Falklands campaign. The technical journal "Shipbuilding and Shipping Record" issue December 22nd/29th 1966 has general arrangement drawings of the Olynthus class large fleet tankers. Of this class "Olwen", "Olna" and "Olmeda" participated in the campaign. "Shipbuliding and Shipping Record" issue 16th March 1967 has general arrangement drawings of the Stores Support ship RFA "Lyness". All three of this class had been sold to the US Navy in 1980/81 but at the start of the Falklands war RFA "Stromness" had not been fully de-stored and transferred to the USN. The sale was therefore suspended and in the first weekend after the Argentinian invasion "Stromness" was converted to carry Royal Marines. She sailed from Portsmouth with 45 RM Commando embarked as well as an overload of stores. She embarked 416 Royal Marines at Ascension and then sailed for the San Carlos landing. She survived some fierce bombing. "Warships of the British and Commonwealth Navies" by H.Trevor Lenton, published 1966 by Ian Allan Ltd., has general arrangement drawings of the Landing Ship Logistic (LSL) RFA "Sir Lancelot" on pages 136 and 137. All six ships of this class were in the thick of the Falklands war and RFA "Sir Galahad" was so severely damaged in heavy bombing that she was towed to sea and sunk as a war grave. RFA "Sir Tristram" was also badly damaged and abandoned but was taken back to the UK and rebuilt. "Merchant Ships at War The Falklands Experience" by Captain Roger Villar, published 1984 by Conway Maritime Press and Lloyds of London, has an elevation of RMS "St. Helena" on pages 110/111. She was converted into a mine sweeping support ship and spent a considerable length of time in this role. For anyone interested in the part played by merchant and RFA ships in the Falklands war, Captain Villar's book is essential reading. It includes full details of the conversion and modification work done to the STUFT (ships taken up from trade). "Canberra; The Great White Whale", published 1983 by Patrick Stephens Limited, has a complete set of GA drawings of "Canberra", as does "British Superliners of the Sixties" by Philip S.Dawson, published 1990 by Conway Maritime Press Ltd. This latter book also has a complete set of GA drawings of RMS "Queen Elizabeth 2". The publishers of "Model Boats" magazine sell a set of model makers' drawings of "Queen Elizabeth 2". Drawings of several other merchant ships which participated in this war will quite likely be found in the technical shipbuilding journals published around the time of the ship's completion. Many libraries hold complete runs of these journals which include "Shipbuilding and Shipping Record", "The Motor Ship", and "The Ship Builder and Marine Engine Builder". Regards to all, Yours aye, Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Subject Cuban Crises 1. My dad was at Fylingdales during the crises, his only comment is that "it was pretty serious" I was shocked to see in a documentary recently that the Cubans had nuclear missiles ready to both hit the invasion force and the supporting fleet. Don't recall that ever being mentioned in Miss Brady's history class in High School. Guess Dad meant what he said. 2. Query on the Revell 1/700 POW, anyone used it with the WEM PE kit for the KGV class? It says it is for the Airfix but I figure it would do? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From potter4@att.net Subject RN Sea Slug missiles You can read about Sea Slug's origins in Norman Friedman's The Postwar Naval Revolution (1986), an excellent technical study of the RN. Web pages about Sea Slug http//homepages.enterprise.net/sjenkins/seaslug.htm http//www.dockmuseum.org.uk/archive/index.asp follow the links to Armaments > Naval Weapon > Rocket Launcher I'm in occasional contact with the weapons officer of HMS Girdle Ness, the Sea Slug trials ship. He said the original triple launcher was based on battleship gun turret designs and featured safety mechanisms that the crew attacked with crowbars to operate. Girdle Ness was the world's only warship to feature both an area-defense guided missile system and a crank-and-piston VTE steam plant. Michael Potter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Donsrcships@wmconnect.com Subject Re gear box set ups Good morning Will glad i was able to help. keep up the good work and I am here for ya out in the pond in my rubber raft ;-) NOW if the fish will settle down so I can get some dinner ;-) But all joking a side were doing good. If you have any questions my self and others are here for ya. DON That Portland Rustbucket ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Paul Giltz" Subject Re Prop driven planes in the Med during Cuban Missle Crisis If I remember correctly there was a time gap when the USN was waiting for the Polaris missile system to become operational and the A3 Skywarrior wasn't deployed yet either. There are a lot of people who are too young to remember that the USAF wanted the carrier navy to be relegated to assisting amphibious assaults.The Airforce considered the Navy to be redundant. The Navy wanted to keep a role as a nuclear stategic deterrent and developed a twin engined turboprop, the AJ-1 "Savage" as a long range nuclear attack plane. The idea was that these planes would fly off the carriers FDR, Midway,and Coral Sea from positions in the Med and Pacific to attack Homeland Russia. I'm pretty sure they were too big to operate from Essex derived carriers. It seems likely that these would be the planes set up for ready launch if the Cuban Missile Crisis got Hot and a general nuclear war began. The "Savage" is an obscure unsung hero, luckily, since it was never used. I still have a copy of Colby's book "Wings of our Navy" that it appears in.( range "secret" ,speed "secret" ,altitude "secret" , armament "restricted" ....) One kit of the Revell FDR carrier had a deckload of AJ-1 Savages as the box art. I can still feel the disappointment of opening the box only to find the regular assortment of planes..."what a gyp!!". Back then that kit represented two months worth of allowance or most of the money I would get for a birthday. The Cuban Missile Crisis took place close to my eleventh birthday and is still one of my scariest memories.My family lived close to Detroit and Detroit would have been a major target. My mom and dad held a family meeting and told us four boys that if something happened and my dad couldn't get home with our car, then we would walk with our mother to our uncle's farm to the South of us. Our uncle's farm was 70 miles South of us. My parents loaded up several of our toy wagons with canned goods for us boys to pull. I was curious to see what they had packed and that evening I went to our garage and peeked under the blankets. I was surprised to see my father's shotgun. My dad was just outside so I rushed out to ask him, "why the shotgun?". He told me that as the oldest I would be the one to carry the ammunition.He then proceeded to explain very calmly exactly what I was to do under a variety of conditions we might expect on our trip. At the end he said, "I didn't want to scare your younger brothers earlier, If you have to go without me, tell them that you will be hunting rabbits when you get to your uncle's ". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "John Lambert" Subject Help please Good Day to you all. I am having thoughts on producing a series of small books on Naval Armament (Mainly RN). It is intended to provide everything I can find on each particular subject, backed up by authentic drawings, text, history, data all from the best sources. Thus each publication will be of interest to modellers, warship buffs and historians. Right now I'm short of sharp, clear photographs of the WW I - 4" destroyer gun. (The one with a half shield) The 4 Inch Mark IV Gun on the P. IX Mounting. This was found on destroyers of the "L" class of 1913, on following wartime destroyers, and was later issued to such gems as some of the early Bangor Class Fleet Minesweepers, and many of the requisitioned Anti-Submarine trawlers. Any ideas please? Many thanks for stirring my grey cells. Yours "Aye" John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From HGYL@aol.com Subject Re MERCHANT AND RFA SHIPS IN THE FALKLANDS WAR In my previous posting I omitted to mention that Captain Villar's book also has an elevation drawing of the cable ship "Iris", which was converted to a dispatch vessel for the conflict, and a set of GA drawings of the repair ship "Stena Seaspread". The latter's near sister "Stena Inspector" was purchased by the MOD after the war and currently serves as the Forward Repair Ship RFA "Diligence". Regards to all, Yours aye, Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From John SLATER Subject Re Gear box setups Dear Will, I build exclusively now in 1/72 scale and remote control just about all I can on a model. In the smaller scales that I have seen remote controlled I cannot help wondering is a gear box necessary? One thing I have noticed in smaller scale RC models that have gearboxes is the units tend to produce a tremendous amount of noise relative to the scale of the model. Whilst you won't want a hobby motor screaming along producing out of scale speeds, and a gear box could be justified to reduce speed to more realistic levels, why not just go for direct drive and use voltage to determine speed. No reason why an inexpensive small hobby motor could not be set up to run on 1.2 or 1.5 volts. Sure your receiver will need 4.8 volts but no reason why you couldn't set up a small variable speed pot on a board to deal with the smaller motor voltage and it give it variable speed. By the way on the subject of variable speed and I know that you said in your last post you don't like thrust vectoring, but in those smaller scales of 1/350 or smaller, how much variation in speed is noticeable? I only ask this as a 1/72 RC modeller the variation is of course extremely noticeable in ships ranging from 3 ft to 15ft long (as is the span of lengths of ships in our club), but in a much smaller scale I am guessing it would be less noticeable? Why not for example remove the limiter tabs of a micro servo and you will then have in one simple unit of a geared motor with speed control. With the limiters removed the further forward you push the radio stick the faster the servo turns, and the same in reverse. You then simply connect the servo to the prop shaft. For two shafts use two with a Y harness connecting them together for single channel throttle operation. Alternatively, if you still want a gear box setup, perhaps build your own. Inexpensive small nylon gear sets are available from most hobby stores. Hope this helps. John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume