Subject: SMML VOL 3053 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:20:11 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1Re Fleet Rehabilitation And Modernization 2 Re revell Type 206A U-Boat 3 Re Sea Slugs 4 Re Scorpion 5 Gear box setups 6 Modeller needed 7 Re FRAMed ships.... 8 FRAM resource 9 Pictures on Ebay of German warships Goeben, Dresden and Leipzig-Pre WWI 10 Re Scorpion ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Steve Singlar Subject Re Fleet Rehabilitation And Modernization Don Sumerall's Gearing & Sumner Class Dettroyer book has a lot of info about the FRAM program on these two ship classes. Also there is a book about Essex Class carriers that discusses the modernization of these ships in the 50's & 60's. Haven't seen any detailed discussions regarding the tenders or cruisers. "Gray Steel; Black Oil" discusses the modernization of some of the oilers during the 60's. Steve Pelham, NH ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Maarten Schönfeld Subject Re revell Type 206A U-Boat Hello Andrew from Oz, I don't have the Revell kit at hand, but I will send you off-line a very clear picture of a "Typ 206A" in the configuration you're looking for. Whether you put up the schnorkel is for you to decide of course, but I include a nice picture of it. I cannot tell the part numbers, but the big pole right in front of the schnorkel is definitely the search periscope, the smaller thing being either the attack periscope or an antenna mast. The flagstaffs on both bow and stern are taken off at sea, and the cleats (retractable bollards) are made flush with the deck, you can see that too. Only a few antennas sticking out, also the long wire antenna from bow to tower remains in place as far as I can see. If the propeller is correct I cannot tell for sure, only that most submarine props nowadays have an uneven number of blades, not six as on the model. I include a picture of the prop of a 205 type, which is of course the 206s forerunner, it has five lobe shaped blades and no sickle types as on the model. But again, this is not for certain, only indicative, the 206 might very well have sickle blades but I would guess there would be five, not six. Last thing to notice is the colour of these German subs when they are freshly painted the colour is medium to dark grey, with a slight greenish sheen. This however quickly weathers into a very dull rather reddish grey-brown, with a slight purple sheen. A very difficult colour to get right, but remember, because they weather so heavily, no two ships are really the same colour. But showing it submerged will certainly affect the colours greatly. Good luck with modelling it! Please show me a picture of your result, or put it up on the internet. I am trying to get my hands on a 1350 version of this sub from Pit-Road, but no success so far. Regards, Maarten Schönfeld The Netherlands ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From potter4@att.net Subject Re Sea Slugs >> Are you after photos or drawings or just general info? << Has anyone a photo or diagram of the pallet or cage that enclosed the Sea Slug aboard a DLG? Photos of the shore-based pallet (as at the RN ordnance museum) don't match my recollection of the shipboard pallet aboard HMS Norfolk (D 21). Rob Kernaghan and I started modeling the double-ended Sea Slug cruiser design that appears in Norman Friedman's The Postwar Naval Revolution, with WEM DLG-style Sea Slug launchers instead of the prototype on HMS Girdle Ness. It could feature such a pallet by one of the replenishment elevators. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From ives100@aol.com Subject Re Scorpion >> I researched this fairly extensively (though not anywhere near as in-depth as the author did) for a History Channel program, "Submarine Disasters" - I was on camera, and also behind the scenes as a historical consultant on this program. The upshot - I'm reasonably convinced that the loss of Scorpion was no "accident," but a Soviet pay-back for a Pac-Fleet sub loss they blamed on us, one that occurred just a short period of time before Scorpion was lost. Theories as to how this tit-for-tat revenge sinking occurred include an underwater collision and some kind of stand-off weapon. << The only mention of the Soviet Navy in the book "Silent Steel" is that there were no Soviet ships within 200 miles of Scorpion when she was lost. I know there has been speculation about the possibility of the Scorpion's fate being related to the K-129 Golf loss, but both were very close in time, and I'm not sure when the Soviet Union may have come to any conclusion that the US might be responsible. The Soviet Navy spent a lot of time looking for the K-129, and gave up when they couldn't find her. Hence they had no firm evidence as to what had befallen that submarine. Also, "Silent Steel" discusses the hydrophone records of the Scorpion sinking, and again, no mention is made in the book that the sounds recorded resembled any sort of torpedo explosion. If you are looking for support for your theory, "Silent Steel" won't provide it. The book clearly argues that the actual cause of Scoprion's loss is still very much an open question. However, it does point out that Scorpion's material condition was far from the best at the time of the loss. Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Will Noble" Subject Gear box setups Folks First, thanks a BIG bunch for all the suggestions. I've some comments of my own, and these are the main reasons for my use of the venerable gearbox. 1. The sound is really minimal. Most people who use gearboxes do NOT lubricate them, for fear of microparticles of lubricant getting on their electronics. It's a simple matter to segregate the electronic components from the motor/gearbox/stuffing boxes by the judicious application of styrene ("Evergreen") and epoxy. I've built a few kits all with gearboxes, and haven't noticed the gearbox assembly being any more or less noisy once you get it on the water. The later gearboxes don't even need lubricant -- they use nylon gears. 2. Having a geared motor doesn't solve the problem unless you're only operating off of one prop. Prop-speed control, plus gearing to slow the RPM down, are both good things - -but as I've mentioned before, Mabuchi manufactures a low-speed/high-torque motor which is ideal for the purpose, and while it's larger than the old standby Model-280, again, a little Evergreen and epoxy solves that problem nicely. 3. I'm very much a minimalist when it comes to electronics. I know fully well that the argument is quite valid - I can resolve all of these issues without a mechanical solution (gearbox) by the application of an electronic one (electronic speed control) - call me a Luddite or what have you, but I really believe that the less electronics I introduce to this lashup, the better off I'll be. What I'm ready really points to two solutions -- on the one hand, discrete motors with speed controls, or one control/one motor/one gearbox, and a LOT less in the way of electrics. It's not 'high-tech', but for good or ill, I LIKE gearboxes. They really do solve a fundamental problem - that of thrust-vectoring, which can only be controlled by application of rudder at that point - unless you have the ability (and the bandwidth) to jockey the speeds of two or more motors simultaneously! To me, this sport is about FUN. It's about getting the ship to the pond or lake, and having it SIMPLE enough that an 8-year-old can handle it. That boils down to two controls on the radio - one for forward/stop, and another for right/left/center on the rudder. The only way to do that and do it properly is with a gearbox (unless I'm missing something, which I'm very happy to learn). Cheers! Will Noble Portland, OR ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From aweiner601@optonline.net Subject Modeller needed Still looking for help in the st. louis area for a competent modeler to make some extra money doing a small repair job..contact me offline at aweiner601@optonline.net or call 718 415 9862..ask for artie,,thanks in advance ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Ray D. Bean" Subject Re FRAMed ships.... ....The FRAM program was so vast covering so many ship classes its virtually beyond the scope of replying here once to answer your questions. If you can find a copy of PAUL SILVERSTONES Warships since 1945, that could be a good start. Ideally, if you can find some OLD OLD OLD copies of Janes Fighting Ships, mid 60s, these are pretty much bibles for the FRAM programs. My copies are huge, heavy and dog eared, and the US section has pages and pages on all ship types modifications.... There was a book published IN GERMAN by Stefan Terzibasitch on the Fleet FRAM program, with tons of pics and info, but long out of print or availability.....no other book that I know of dedicated to that. Lots of associated different books with sections and chapters here and there...... RDB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject FRAM resource This came up a couple of years ago, but I will repost the information FRAM Das Modernisierrungsprogramm der US Navy 1959 - 1964 By Stefan Terzibaschitsch ISBN 3-469-00549-4 German text, and mediocre photo reproduction, but it is the best work on the subject. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Warship Models Underway - Learn about large scale, radio control warship models www.warshipmodelsunderway.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "Paul Giltz" Subject Pictures on Ebay of German warships Goeben, Dresden and Leipzig-Pre WWI Ebay never fails to amaze me with what shows up there. Even if you never bought anything it is wonderfully educational to look at the pictures and read the captions. At the moment there is a fellow in Germany who is selling photos taken of the Battlecruiser Goeben and Cruiser Dresden while they were visiting Constantinople presumably just before WWI. As far as I can tell these are original photos. What might be a British predreadnought is in one view. He also has a series of photos taken by members of the Cruiser Leipzig during a trip to China in 1909. That trip has some views of Russian ships, survivors of Tsushima,that still show all the battledamage. Would some of these ships have been interned in China? I don't know much about their fate after the 1905 war. These apparently came out of the estate of a Luftwaffe HE-111 crewmember so there are also photos from the Battle of Britain period of planes and activity on the ground in France and Poland. Somewhere along the way he acquired photos from the German WWI African land campaign and some prewar Zepplin photos, too. If you have an interest in such things you might go look on Ebay and search for this seller- Zeil400. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From Bill Bryant Subject Re Scorpion I was in subs at about that time, had been out of the Navy for about a year when Scorpion went down. The only thing that I can add to the discussion based on personal experience & experiences of friends serving in other boats at that time is that I can attest to the fact that those torpedos were SOB problem children. More hot runs in tubes & battery fires than the Navy ever owned up to publicly. Nobody serving in subs was sorry when those weapons were phased out of service. I was fortunate in never personally experiencing a hot run of one of those suckers in the tube, but knew two officers on other boats who did live through that experience-a warshot hot running in the tube isn't a submariner's idea of a good time. Station the Maneuvering Watch; single up all hands. Regards, Bill Bryant ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume