Subject: SMML VOL 3055 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:19:52 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Warship quarterly/annual 2 U-Boat dive kits (Revell 1/72) 3 revell type VIIC sub - for Greg Turek 4 Re Revell Type VII-C U boat 5 R/C Submarine Parts 6 The battle of opinions (was Scorpion) 7 Re Pictures on Ebay of German warships Goeben, Dresden and Leipzig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "cog" Subject Warship quarterly/annual Hello. On eBay the first three years, VOL. I, II & III, of WARSHIP (originally a quarterly, now an annual publication) are up for auction at a fairly low price (item # 4606142960). How good a reference was WARSHIP at the start? Thanks, Cog ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Will Noble" Subject U-Boat dive kits (Revell 1/72) >> As some talk of subs lately, thought I'd mention my latest project, Revell typeVIIC U-Boat 172 scale. The challenge is to make it operate in pond/pool. Have previously posted my efforts in R/C plastic ships(QM2, Titanic, etc) . Many difficulties including waterproofing, buoyancy mech and fitting r/c gear into long narrow hull. Plan to use graupner pump for flooding an internal chamber(plastic pipe) and 1 channel for speed control, 1 for pump, 1 for rudder and 1 for bow planes. Lots of experimentation and trial and error. If anyones interested or doing similar, let me know. << Dear Greg Greetings from Oregon! Unless you're perfectly willing to throw LOTS of money away on the theoretical experiments regarding buoyancy and displacement -- hit on this link, below. I've done business with these folks and can recommend them highly. They are literally where it begins and ends for R/C model submarines - and while they're in Germany, I've never found that dealing with them here in the US is any problem at all. I'd imagine that shipping would be slightly higher in Australia.... There are a lot of accessories, as you know, for that kit -- I've got one myself, and I built it pretty much 'stock'-- you'll find that the aftermarket goodies from Nautilus (wood decking) and Yankee Modelworks (resin pressure hull and other stuff) isn't workable for a 'working' model (I can only imagine what lake water would do to that laser-cut Nautilus wood deck!) My advice Save yourself the grief - go here http//www.engel-modellbau.de/catalog/?language=en get yourself a Revell U-Boat dive-kit, and spend your time with the kids at the lake -- it's time better spent! Cheers! Will Noble Portland, OR ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Reid, John (AFIT)" Subject revell type VIIC sub - for Greg Turek There’s a major article on a dynamic-submerging conversion of this kit in the current issue of either Marine Modelling International or Model Boats (can’t rember which but it is the cover story) which you will see in Oz in about 6 weeks! John Reid The Aussie in Rome who bought his copy in London last weekend.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From ives100@aol.com Subject Re Revell Type VII-C U boat >> As some talk of subs lately, thought I'd mention my latest project, Revell typeVIIC U-Boat 172 scale. The challenge is to make it operate in pond/pool. Have previously posted my efforts in R/C plastic ships(QM2, Titanic, etc) . Many difficulties including waterproofing, buoyancy mech and fitting r/c gear into long narrow hull. Plan to use graupner pump for flooding an internal chamber(plastic pipe) and 1 channel for speed control, 1 for pump, 1 for rudder and 1 for bow planes. Lots of experimentation and trial and error. If anyones interested or doing similar, let me know. << Greg, Why reinvent the wheel? There's an entire group of people doing this in the SubCommittee. They have worked out already a number of the details as to how to go about making the Revell kit into an R/C boat. Go over to http//subcommittee.com Just post on their bulletin board; Dave Welch (& others) has tremendous experience in R/C converting several static model kits. They make special watertight containers for the components sized to fit these model. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Will Noble" Subject R/C Submarine Parts Folks This is a great site, also, and I would be completely remiss if I didn’t mention this one. Plenty of books, research materials, discrete components, and complete systems for all classes/scales of R/C submarines and kit conversions http//www.subcommittee.com/SubComm/vendors.cfm Cheers! Will Noble Portland, OR ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From Ned Barnett Subject The battle of opinions (was Scorpion) From "Rick Nelson" >> I find the speculation regarding the Soviets "taking out" the Scorpion as retaliation for the loss of the K-129 very far fetched. The facts just don't support such a secnario. << I have to disagree, and as I said, I researched this extensively for History Channel. In addition, since this thread started, I've gotten three off-list replies from list-members who were in the Navy at that time and who had anecdotal evidence that seems to support my speculation. I've also gotten one report from a list-member who was in the Navy at the time (in subs), who thought the facts suggest otherwise, and I respect his views. I understand that you were also in the Navy at that time, but don't see from your comments that you had access to any specific information about what happened - I may be wrong on this, and if so, I'll gladly retract that. I make no bones about having been in high school when Scorpion was sunk (or sank) - I have no direct contemporary knowledge of it, which is why I researched it so thoroughly for History Channel's "Submarine Disasters" program. Of course, I have no absolute proof - and unless I'm mistaken, neither do you - but to just say I'm wrong without offering a shred of support seems a bit strong - unless you were on the accident investigation team (or had access to their reports), you're just speculating. To say my speculation is far-fetched is an opinion, and you're welcome to yours, as I'm welcome to mine. To say the facts don't support this theory - as an unproven possibility - is just dead-wrong. There are many facts that support this - as a possibility - though they're also subject to alternative interpretations. >> Furthermore, I doubt that the Soviet Navy would take such a chance. The possible escalation paths would be very dnagerious for them. Conspiricy theorist never rest! << No need to be insulting, Rick. What did I do, kick your dog or something? C'mon, lighten up. This is hardly a "conspiracy theory" - as you suggest. At that same general time-frame, there had been several other open-water assaults on US ships (Pueblo and Liberty) and in each case, we did bupkus. We were embroiled in a land-war in Asia and were tied up in the most bitter election fight of the 20th Century - at that time, we may well have looked like a "safe mark" to the Soviets, especially if they could do this without leaving finger-prints. Bushwacking a lone sub in the open ocean, away from shipping channels and way-far-away from SOSUS, may have looked like a good bet. It's clear that we still have no definitive idea what happened, almost 40 years later - and that takes into account ROV probes of the site that weren't possible at the time Scorpion sank, or was sunk. Ned Barnett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From chris Tilley Subject Re Pictures on Ebay of German warships Goeben, Dresden and Leipzig Thanks to Paul Glitz for pointing out the interesting pictures on E-Bay under the zeil400 username and giving me an object lesson in ship identification! Sometimes you just can't see beyond the obvious. The pictures of Leipzig with the Russians in Colombo harbour are fascinating, especially as, if they are dated correctly, Tsessarevich has not had any repairs done since Yellow Sea in August 1904, five years previously. Let alone the fact he hasn't got back home yet either! (For all those that don't know, all Russian ships are 'He' not 'she'.) So, how long was the ship interned by the Chinese at Kiao-Chau for, does anyone know? Another photo shows an unnamed Russian cruiser, which took me a long time to identify. The ship has three funnels, but doesn't resemble any Russian ship of that configuration. However the forward superstructure is very distinctive, and, with a little prompting from a friend, I realised what we're seeing is Askold, a ship best known for having FIVE funnels, and gaining the nickname 'Packet of Woodbines' when she served alongside the RN in the Med during WWI. He even spent a short time in RN service after being 'appropriated' during the Revolution. The E-Bay photo shows her missing the fore and aft funnels, a unique view to say the least. Now, there's a subject for the weathering/battle-damage debate that was running through here a couple of weeks back, don't you think, especially as there are several kits of Askold out there in different scales? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume