Subject: SMML VOL 3076 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:33:38 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 SMS Geier 2 Re 1/1200 missile ships 3 Re Photoetch Parts 4 Re WEM 1350 County class, Town class and Leander class 5 Re Big moe plans 6 USS Oriskany (CV-34) 7 Re USS MISSOURI booklet of general plans PDF file 8 Re Photo-etching 9 Old N/S Savannah Article Information 10 SMS GEIER/USS CARL SCHURZ 11 HMS Nizam Model -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 Models for sale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Jon Holford" Subject SMS Geier For the subscriber who was looking for plans of SMS Geier/USS Schurtz, try http//www.dreadnoughtproject.org It has plans of Geier in her German days, probably quite early in her career. They are originals, very accurate as far as they go, though they do not show lower deck or hold plas or lines. Dreadnought Project is an excellent site for plans of German warships, especially for World War 1 era. Jon Holford Cork, Ireland ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "Wetherhorn" Subject Re 1/1200 missile ships The 11200 - 11250 collectors community already have several completed models, as well as possible kits, for the whole range of converted cruisers. USS CANBERRA, USS GALVESTON, USS LITTLE ROCK, and USS ALBANY and even the Italian GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI are all available (or have been) in one or more configurations. thirty years ago I did resort to cutting up an Authenticast model to add missiles. Today I usually just wait until one of the many model makers issues one. If you enjoy doing the conversion, and can handle fine details (11200 is SMALL) then I recommend trying a Superior conversion. I always enjoyed rebuilding them ina variant that is not commercially available Aryeh Wetherhorn Elazar, Israel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Leslie D. Foran" Subject Re Photoetch Parts Referring to John Mills request for information on starting out with PE, I'm certainly no expert myself, but I have been using this stuff for the last several years and can offer this advice based on my experience. I would suggest leaving off any of the cast parts that you intend to replace with PE. You may also find that the kit may include cast-on details that will need to be removed to be replaced with the finer PE parts. One item that comes to mind are cast-on railings that may even be solid. I usually purchase the PE parts before any construction is begun, then, studying the fret compared to the kit parts, I can modify the plastic parts prior to construction. You may find the PE parts instructions will give you ideas for detailing, or maybe suggest modifications to the plastic kit to more effectively use the PE parts. Sometimes the PE set will include parts such as aircraft catapults that can replace the kit parts entirely. Be aware that there are PE accessories that can enhance a model well beyond the features included in the PE set specific to the ship model. Examples would be PE sets of watertight doors, Carley floats, and small deck details. You can use superglue to attach the parts, but the thin stuff will run and needs to have perfect mating surfaces to attach effectively. Some people like to use ultra-thin glue with hairlike tube applicators to spread the glue by capillary action while the part is applied to the model. I find this seems to require three hands, so I would rather use a gap-filling superglue, touching the PE parts to the glue before holding them in place for the glue to set. Actually, what I find works well for me, is to carefully touch the PE part to a puddle of white glue. This stuff is a lot more forgiving to work with (you can wipe it off and start over) and has gap-filling capabilities. It also takes a while to set, which can be an advantage when trying to align railings. Before trying to do anything with the PE parts. I first spray them with gray primer. DuPont makes a line of primers that do not contain the fillers usually found in primer. Apply this very thinly. It will help the paint adhere, and will help the white glue to adhere too if you choose to use this stuff. Prime the whole set before detaching any of the parts. I generally paint the model before applying the PE. Priming the PE makes it easier for me to see. After the PE is applied, it can be brush painted. Subassemblies such as gun turrets with PE doors and aiming hoods and ladders can be assembled with PE and painted as a unit. PE ladders can have the top and bottom side rails folded over and used as attachment points. This will cause the ladder to "stand off" the side of the structure for a more realistic appearance. Don't forget that the ships' boats and aircraft are little models in their own right, and PE details make a big difference, especially in the larger scales like you are working in. PE railings take a lot of planning and pre-fitting to turn out looking right. Usually, the PE fret will contain several styles of railings to be used at different deck levels. I use a tweezers with angled points to put right-angle bends in the stuff. It can also be used to form bends of different angles to go around angled deck corners. Usually there is a summetry to superstructures that allows a carefully shaped railing for one side to be duplicated in mirror image for the other side. Usually, I will apply railings working upward from the lower deck level. This seems to cause less interference with previously applied parts. Always use the hardest, flattest surface for cutting PE on. A flat piece of thick glass would probably be best. I personally use a flat glazed ceramic tile. the cutting tool used is a sharp single-edge razor blade. Scissors do not work well because it is hard to cut off the part without leaving a bit of the fret on the part, and because they impart a curl to the part being trimmed off. When you cut the part off with a razor blade, be sure to put a finger on the part to keep the springiness of the metal from sending the part into orbit. A razor blade and a steel straightedge can be used to fold the PE parts, like if you are making inclined ladders with railings or foldup aircraft catapults. Lay the part on your glass, cover the part with a straightedge up to the fold line, then slide the razor blade under the portion of the part to be bent up. Raise the blade until it is vertical and you will have a straight 90 degree bend. To keep the straightedge from wiggling, put a couple strips of masking tape on the backside so it can get some traction on the glass. Curved railings look hard to make, but are relatively easy. Pull the railing against a straight round rod, such as an Xacto knife hande, to impart a curl. This can be done several times to increase the curvature. Be sure to keep the rod at a right angle to the railing or it will wind up flared out at the top (which might be what you want). There may be a few brass parts that you want to be brass on the model. Unpainted PE looks good as fittings on ship's boats, or as screws, That's about all the advice I can give you. I'm sure your request will generate a lot of responses. My experience so far has been limited to Gold Medal Models and White Ensign Models PE, both of which I have found to be excellent. There are other good brands out there, too. I have found that some GMM PE for 1/600 scale ships is made of stainless steel rather than brass. It is pretty much the same to work with as brass, but it is harder and a little tougher to cut. My advice is to do a lot of pre-planning, especially studying prototype photos of your ship before starting. Don't try to do too much at a sitting, and wait if your eyes are tired. Take your time, sometimes you may have to form and straighten a railing a couple of times to get it right. Count the spaces between vertical posts on the railings to gauge the length, and don't forget to cut gaps where ladders meet the railings. A warning use of PE is addictive. After building a couple of models with PE, you will want to include it on all future projects because they won't "look right" to you without it. Good Luck Les Foran Somewhere in Nebraska ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "John Snyder" Subject Re WEM 1350 County class, Town class and Leander class Hi Maarten, You may find two of those, but WEM never produced a 1/350 County Class. Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From Donsrcships@wmconnect.com Subject Re Big moe plans OK I am not sure about the rest of ya? I tryed to look at it and we have windows XP. I got about a 1/4 of it only. What I got was small, I got the list that it showed of what is listed and still nothing happen. Did any body elest try. I cant seem to get it at all. DON ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Glenn and Kelly Neklason" Subject USS Oriskany (CV-34) Can anybody point me to hangar deck plans for the USS Oriskany (CV-34)? Thank you, Glenn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Jerry Slagle" Subject Re USS MISSOURI booklet of general plans PDF file From Brooks Rowlett >> http//cache.ussmissouri.org/missouri.pdf << That is one great link. The quality of the general arrangement plans is outstanding. Thanks for sending. Are there anymore useful blueprint sites out there? I would be particularly interested in my ship when I was aboard her, the USS TICONDEROGA CVA-14, 1965-67 timeframe and or her configuration during WWII. Looking forward to seeing more general arrangement plans, Jerry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Chris Preston Subject Re Photo-etching Hi John, I think everyone has their own preferred methods for working with photo-etch. You're on the right track with the superglue. I use the thinnest version for most of my photo-etch, positioning the part as accurately as possible, where you want it to go, and then gingerly applying the glue on the end of a "10 or 11 X-acto blade - while holding the part in position with another tool (this is what works for me!). It's a small amount of glue at that. Others have also used clear matt or gloss varnish to good effect as well, but again using a small amount. As for dealing with the parts, and when to apply them, I suggest you identify which photo-etch parts are going to replace the respective plastic parts on the kit, and use them in that order. For parts such as P-E ladders, doors, and hose racks (where applicable), I would use them as you are working on the larger plastic assembly that has the offending molded-on plastic detail that needs replacing. As for painting before or after attaching them to the kit, some modellers prefer to paint the P-E brass part first and then mount it on the kit; others prefer to mount the P-E brass on the kit as they go, and paint later, in sub-assemblies. Things such as the aircraft handling cranes can be assembled and painted as sub-assemblies, and put aside until the rest of the finished model is ready to receive them. Items such as guard rails can be difficult either way, and each technique has it's pro's and con's. Pre-painting has the glue binding to the paint instead of the part and results in a visible glue residue having to be dealt with after the part has been glued on. Gluing the P-E on before painting leaves no glue marks to deal with later, but can result in parts being damaged in the masking process. For myself, I prefer to glue the parts on during assembly, or build sub-assemblies where applicable, and mask and paint later. The best thing that I can suggest is to try both methods and see which works best for you, but where-ever possible, doing things in sub-assemblies is a good idea. Another good thing to do, is to soak all your P-E frets in acetone to clean them of any grease or residue before you start. Also, if possible, and the brass can tolerate it, giving the fret a very light and gentle sanding, without damaging the individual parts, can give them an additional "key" for the glue. On some assemblies, I even solder the parts together for additional strength ( and them clean using acetone). As I said, there are a number of different ways of working with photo-etch, and I'm sure that there are some who have a different view than mine. Try both techniques if you can, and see which works the best for you. Hope this helps. Cheers, Chris Preston, Victoria, B.C. Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "Catherine Upton" Subject Old N/S Savannah Article Information The recent spate of comments on Revell Germany’s re-issue of the N/S Savannah reminded me of an article I once saw on this ship, and I was wondering if someone out there can help me find it again. I think I saw it in Popular Mechanics or a similar publication. As I recall, the article or series of articles covered the building of the ship’s hull of laminations of paper over a wooden plug, and powered by a steam turbine (the mechanical aspect of the series). I don’t remember if the model was radio-controlled. Thanks for your help. Peter Upton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From Lars Scharff Subject SMS GEIER/USS CARL SCHURZ Ulrich Rudofsky at http//www.dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Geier_1894 are drawings of SMS Geier. If you find additional plans, could you please post the source here? In "Die Schiffe der Kaiserlichen Marine 1918-1918 und ihr Verbleib" by Dieter Jung are small profiles of SMS Cormoran in 1908 (before the conversion) and SMS Geier in 1909 (after her conversion). I could scan them, if you think, that you need also a profile. Best regards Lars Scharff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From "Christopher & Kayo" Subject HMS Nizam Model >> Secondly, there is the HMS Nizam 1940 destroyer, found at http//www.nikomodel.pl/nizam.htm I am confused by this one's title, as the boxart clearly states that it is for the HMS Nizam "N-class" during 1940, but it also states that the model is for the "destroyer J,K,N Class", and the model on the boxart and in the finished model clearly is for a RN destroyer of the "J,K,N Class" (Kelly's), with pennant "G 38" also clearly shown. << I can help out there - the JKN class destroyers comprised 24 ships to two designs. Three (Jervis, Kelly, Napier) were built as leaders with extended rear deckhouses. The others were like Nizam and you could build 21 different ships from this model if you were so inclined (but with modifications). The model is a competitor to the White Ensign JKN class model - if this is still available. >> This Niko produced model is such a beautiful RN subject, and is most welcome. Especially noted is the very fine photoetched set that includes masts, davits, radar, funnel topping and many other very tiny bits. A must have for your RN destroyer collection. << There is no radar included in the photo-etch I'm afraid and the etched pennant number is strange. The rear area is a mess - the wings of the aft deckhouse did not have supports and no liferafts were located there. The TSDS is incorrectly represented (the third depressor paravane is missing) but this is a flaw shared with the White Ensign version. Also the platform between the mast legs is missing. This model will build an early Juno, K class or N class. For the other early J class ships you would need the White Ensign model which includes the funnel with the galley funnel moulded on it. The colour scheme is also wrong - JKN ships did not have green coverings on their weatherdecks - it was grey. Because of this the kit does not replace the White Ensign version though the turrets and twin 4.7 inch are better and include very nice recruperator detail but the moulding quality (at least from the photographs shown) is not as good. >> A very interesting photograph of G16 Tjerk Hiddes (nearest) with British destroyers G25 HMS Nepal (far) and G29 HMS Offa (centre), can be found at http//www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/n_class.htm#HMS%20Nizam And what is so interesting about this "N-class" page is the fact that this just mentioned shot shows these three units of this class in three very distinct color-schemes. << If I may blow my own trumpet here my book The Kellys - British JKN class destroyers in World War II contains many interesting camouflage profiles and information on these ships. It also contains everything a modeller would need to know to build an accurate JKN class ship. (The Kellys is reviewed on the SMML site Shane) Christopher Amano-Langtree ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "Rod" Subject Models for sale Just an FYI in case anybody's interested, I have a few ship models on Ebay. Username = c177guy. Thank you, Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume