Subject: SMML VOL 3085 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:51:05 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re HMS Nizam 2 Interwar RN Tropics colors 3 Re HMS Nizam 4 Information on WWII ATAs ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Mikejillmc@aol.com Subject Re HMS Nizam >> I made it clear that the moulding was not an improvement on the WEM model. << Really? It is impossible to tell this from a photograph, in any case that is just your opinion, or perhaps you are an unpaid cheerleader for White Ensign, you seem very keen to knock one kit producer and promote another. >> As for accuracy this is not minor as plenty of research is easily available and we pay for good research not for an inaccurate model which is an easy build. << If I remember correctly the sum of your complaints on accuracy were that the carley floats were in the wrong place, there was an arm missing from a loading davit and the deck was painted the wrong colour, pretty minor in my book. How exactly do you define inaccurate? Is anything less than 100% inaccurate. Regardless of the amount of research available I don't know if any model ever produced could be said to be 100% accurate, so this kit is hardly on its own is it? Of course accuracy is important, but where accuracy issues can be relatively simply corrected, this is not the one and only issue. It is then up to the buyer to decide what they want from the kit. >> Of course if you cannot see the model you cannot judge but when a company posts detailed and clear photos of the model on their website one is able to make an evaluation. << Only of certain characterstics, although you seem to be the only person I have ever come across who thinks they can come to a conclusion on a model without ever actually seeing it. Then again, I have a nice bridge you might want to buy, shall I send you a photo? >> As I said before people now have more information to make a better evaluation of Niko Model's product than what Niko and you feel they should have. << You say that they put clear and detailed photos on their site so the buyer can make a decision and then say they are trying to hide information? Make your mind up. >> I feel you would be better off learning a bit of objectivity rather than acting as an unpaid cheerleader for Niko Models. Then maybe I would feel able to credit your opinions and comments. << My opinions are based on having seen and built many resin kits from numerous manufacturers. I would also happily act as an unpaid cheerleader for Kombrig, Samek, certain White Ensign kits, certain HP kits, L'Arsenal etc, shall I go on? Actually I feel you would be better off learning a little more tolerance for the opinion of others and perhaps a little humility? And finally, if you don't give any credit to my comments, you have wasted an awful lot of your time replying to them. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From Gayle and Phil Subject Interwar RN Tropics colors Hello I am looking for a model paint reference for the buff color used on the stacks of British cruisers operating in the tropics pre-WWII? It seems a bit different than the color used on USCG ships--perhaps more yellow, but having never seen the real thing, I cannot say. I do recall someone once writing in SMML that a particular shade of buff used for model railroads is a close match for the US Coast Guard color. Does anyone recall what it was? Phil L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Leslie D. Foran" Subject Re HMS Nizam First off, I don't model ANY 1/700 scale, nor have I ever seen a Niko model (at least, not in person), nor have I ever built a resin model of any ship. You might say, as they do in Mississippi "I don't have a dog in that fight". That said, I still would like to weigh in on this discussion, because there is an important philosophical point at stake here. Can a model be a good model if it does not closely represent its prototype? Well, I would say that any model's primary function would be to represent its prototype. It is all a matter of degree, all models have to be compromises at some point. If a model is well constructed and finished, and made of quality materials, but has gross inaccuracies, it may be a fine miniature (toy?), but it definitely would not be a fine model. The only exception I can think of would be "freelanced" or "prototype" models, which represent a concept rather than an actual vessel. If a kit is made up of good quality materials, with a decent job of casting/molding, but is not well detailed (or worse yet, inaccurately detailed), would it be a good kit? Not in my humble opinion. Can such a kit produce a really fine model? Of course, depending on the level of "accurizing" and detailing the builder chooses to do. Not every modeller has the desire or the ability to do such modifications in order to produce an accurate model. Most modellers buy kits expecting them to be accurate (within reason) representation of their prototypes, and expect to be able to produce a reasonably accurate model by building the model "out of the box" with the use of normal hobby tools and adhesives and finishing materials. Many of my favorite models in my own collection were built from Lindberg kits, never known for their accuracy of detail (sometimes short of major naval architecural components), but a big part of the hobby for me is in researching prototypes and scratchbuilding detail missing in the kits. I realize that most of these kits are compromises to allow their use as powered models for kids. They are really good for this out-of-the-box. But with enough work, they can be made into detailed, accurate models. Does this make them high-quality scale model kits? No. Can they be favorably be compared as scale model kits with the likes of Tamaya or Iron Shipwright? Hell, no. Can you build a good model from a poor kit? Yes. Can you build a poor model from a good kit? You know it. You can judge a kit by the quality of its materials, but the true test of the quality of a model kit has to be in its accurate depiction of its prototype. Les Foran Far from the Sea ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From WVeigele@aol.com Subject Information on WWII ATAs I would be grateful if any one could tell me where I can get information on the superstructure and internal compartments and/or obtain cutaways or schematics of WWII ships of the ATA type. These were the 143 feet, two diesel-electric drive ships such as the number series like 176, 188, 192, etc. Bill Veigele www.astralpublishing.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume