Subject: SMML Vol 3087 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:54:46 +1100 The Ship Modelling Mailing List (SMML) is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com For infomation on how to Post to SMML and Unsubscribe from SMML http//smmlonline.com/aboutsmml/rules.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 The HMS Nizam Affair 2 HMS Sir Galahad 3 Good & Accurate 4 REVELLE CRUISE SHIP MODELS! 5 A good kit 6 Re "Good" and "Accurate" models and kits 7 Re Interwar RN Tropics colors 8 Re Will Noble and Gearbox setups -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1 HMS Nizam 2 Nizam kit by Niko Models ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From Shane Subject The HMS Nizam Affair I wish to beg the indulgence of the membership on a rather selfish matter as we are right in the midst of selling our house and moving. Since I would like life to be sorta peaceful while that is going on, I am going to terminate the ongoing Nizam debate as of now. This of course does not apply to the thread developing out of it on what modellers want in kits. For the record as a modeller (shut up Drage), reviewer and shop owner (where we sell the WEM J, K, N and are about to stock the Niko version - pity they're calling it HMS Nizam instead of HMAS Nizam ;-) ) I say that you can make a judgement call from photos on what a kit is like and whether or not you think it's worth your time buying it. That is what the photos are there for. In fact the more photos a manufacterer puts out the better judgement you can make as one would expect them to want to sell as many items as possible. It doesn't beat having the kit in your hands, but until you do or reviews/build articles are written that's all you have to go on. Regards, Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From GAZWE@aol.com Subject HMS Sir Galahad Hi Guys Can somebody point me in the direction of plans for HMS Sir Galahad this is the RFA ship that was sunk in the Falklands war its also the ship that Simon Weston was burned on. A fellow club member Des Burgess Alan (black park model boat club) would like to build her. Des's other ships include HMS Hermes & Glamorgan in 1/96 & HMS Ashanti in 1/48 all scratch built thank you gary rowe chairman bpmbc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "Leslie D. Foran" Subject Good & Accurate Re Dave Swindell's post in Vol 3086 I cannot disagree with what Dave is saying here, as to the quality of the finished product (assembled model) being of paramount importance in contest judging. What I was trying to say is that kits are supposed to be representations of prototypes, and inasmuch as this is so, it would follow that a good quality kit would have to have a reasonable level of accuracy. But that's just my opinion. The importance of quality of construction and finish can hardly be underestimated. That's what I meant when I stated that a good kit can produce a poor model. Who among us has not botched a few? Of course, some of the finest finished models do not come from kits at all, but are built from scratch as a labor of love. Personally, I aspire to be able to do this someday, and find that certain kits that leave something to be desired in the details actually help me develop the skills that will someday get me to that goal. At the same time, I really appreciate those kits that are nicely detailed, made of high quality materials, and fit together well. They are a joy to build. I am especially pleased to find such kits by new manufacturers "raising the bar" so to speak. I found such a kit recently in the form of a sub kit by the Russian manufacturer Zvezda. In over 50 years of modelling, I can say I have never seen a better combination of moulding quality, quality of material (what a change from former Soviet offerings!) and attention to details. The kit I bought was 50% higher in price than a Dragon kit of the same scale, but I felt it was worth it. I would also like to add that the personal sniping surrounding this subject is distressing, although I don't feel that any was directed at me. I certainly did not intend to offend anyone with my comments. After all, this is just a hobby and I can only speak for myself with my opinions. Les Foran Missing the Sea ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From "paulship57@hotmail.com" Subject REVELLE CRUISE SHIP MODELS! Here's a curious item on Ebay.A promotional model of a cruise ship supposedly by Revell. Cheap,too. Can anyone shed light on this model? REVELLE CRUISE SHIP MODELS! $1.25 EACH!!! Item number 6038777381 Paul Giltz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From "Christopher & Kayo" Subject A good kit David >> I have to say I disagree with some of Leslie's definitions and arguments regarding "good" and "accurate" models and kits. A kit can be judged whether it is good bad or indifferent on the quality of the parts supplied, how well they fit together, ease of assembly, the instructions and information supplied, the packaging it is supplied in and the after sales service and support provided by the manufacturer. Accuracy is irrelevant in this analysis, a kit is still good if its parts are well moulded, fit together easily as shown by clear instructions even if it is inaccurate. << Whilst this may be the case for a judging decision I do not think it is the case for most modellers. It would not be the case for a purchasing decision. When one buys a kit the main reason is topic - do I want this kit. This is followed by accuracy - does the kit easily resemble the prototype I want to build and can I modify it easily. The amount of money spent on after market accessories clearly indicates that accuracy is very important to a large number of modellers. The factors you mention come well down the list and in fact a difficult to assemble kit is often bought because of the other factors and because it is a challenge. I think you may mean a well-engineered or well designed kit not a good kit. Leslie definitions would be more acceptable to most modellers whilst yours would be more acceptable to most competition judges. I think though your last paragraph does provide a partial illumination - a good kit is one that someone enjoys building and the factors that make this vary between modellers. Christopher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From lawman555@aol.com Subject Re "Good" and "Accurate" models and kits Boy.....I'm going to hug my model of my WWI submarine chaser and be thankful no one can see it but me. Jim Myers PS I actually converted it to a WWII SC;but goofed up on the width of the older model. UGH. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From Subject Re Interwar RN Tropics colors In Vol. 3085, Phil L asks for the reference to the buff color used on the stacks of British cruisers operating in the tropics pre-WWII. First, I have seen no evidence that buff was used on fleet ships after the general introduction of all-gray schemes around 1903. Prior to that time, fleet ships in temperate zones wore black hulls, white upperworks, and 'buff' funnels ('stacks'), cowl ventilators and masts. As far as I have found, only the ships of the East Indies Station wore white hulls consistently. It's possible that ships on the China Station also wore white, but I have no evidence. 'Buff' appears to have been an elusive color; if I had to pick a color which might be least controversial, I'd choose Floquil Depot Buff. However, there appears to have been a lot of variation, particularly after a repaint in locations far from home. Second, there is evidence that the color scheme used (at least in some tropical zones) between the two WW's was a white hull with light gray upperworks, stacks and masts. There are photos and captions of such in the book 'Cruisers in Camera' by Roger Hayward, pub. Sutton Publishing Limited in 2000, ISBN 0 7509 2350 4. For example HMS 'Hawkins" is shown in 1919 in China Station colors as just described. Also, HMS 'Kent' is shown in 1931 leaving UK for the China Station with similar livery. Both examples appear to have a dark boot topping, probably black or maybe dark gray. This is a worth while book with photos of cruisers with their histories from the Victorian era through to modern times. Another source (unfortunately I have mislaid the reference) describes the same scheme, but adds that there were exceptions in non-cruiser ships China gunboats and surveying ships had 'buff" stacks and masts. Brian Taylor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Richard Simpson Subject Re Will Noble and Gearbox setups Catching up on my emails I notice that some time ago Mr Noble mentioned >> -but as I've mentioned before, Mabuchi manufactures a low-speed/high-torque motor which is ideal for the purpose << I can find no other reference to this motor. Given I am always looking for good low RPM / high Torque motors (I have a few hundred in storage and always want more) I was curious about which motor (i.e. the exact part number) you were referring to Will. Thanks and regards Richard Simpson Australian Battle Group www.ausbg.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "John Snyder" Subject HMS Nizam OK Folks, Whether you'd like the new Niko kit, or our "aging" one, you can get 'em both right here at White Ensign Models. ;^) Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From "John Snyder" Subject Nizam kit by Niko Models Hi Chaps, We have just received the Nizam kit. The casting quality and the detail of the model appear to be very good. I am no expert in the accuracy stakes, but I think folks will generally be very pleased with this kit when they buy it. Cheers Caroline http//www.whiteensignmodels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Reviews, Articles, Backissues, Member's models & Reference Pictures at http//smmlonline.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume